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Author Topic: Hurley!
WHO?UK
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posted 06-07-2024 06:50 AM      Profile for WHO?UK   Email WHO?UK   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What a summer! If Hurley takes the Laker Gig, which I believe he will. That could open up another big time recruit for Pope. Good thing he saved one scholarship.

My Blue shades are always thick but I just feel like Pope is a head of the power curve. Or things are falling at the right time.

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RLTW!

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ProBlue
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posted 06-07-2024 09:03 AM      Profile for ProBlue   Email ProBlue   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If he goes to the Lakers and U Conn needs a coach bet Cal is kicking himself for jumping the gun to Ark.

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ProBlue

Posts: 776 | From: Bristol,Tn. | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged
WHO?UK
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posted 06-07-2024 09:27 AM      Profile for WHO?UK   Email WHO?UK   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ProBlue:
If he goes to the Lakers and U Conn needs a coach bet Cal is kicking himself for jumping the gun to Ark.

Im not convinced UCONN would have hired him. As much as I loved Cal for far to long. Im realizing how much of his welcome was worn not only at UK but nationally.

[ 06-07-2024, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: WHO?UK ]

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RLTW!

Posts: 878 | From: Savannah Ga | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Trey Ball
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posted 06-07-2024 01:07 PM      Profile for Trey Ball   Email Trey Ball   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ProBlue:
If he goes to the Lakers and U Conn needs a coach bet Cal is kicking himself for jumping the gun to Ark.

The Arkansas job is about 1000% better than the UCONN job.

UCONN has to get themselves into the ACC/Big 10/SEC or they are going to be left behind with the new Pay for Play in College Athletics and I am sure Danny Hurley knows that. He may choose to stay because they can make a run again next year, but after that it is going to get much more difficult because they only get around $4.5 Million per year from the Big East....Whereas the SEC schools get $51.3 Million.

Arkansas doesn't even have to worry about creating a collective with their three Multi Billionaire backers.

[ 06-07-2024, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.

redbone

Posts: 11611 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
WHO?UK
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posted 06-07-2024 01:19 PM      Profile for WHO?UK   Email WHO?UK   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Trey Ball:
quote:
Originally posted by ProBlue:
If he goes to the Lakers and U Conn needs a coach bet Cal is kicking himself for jumping the gun to Ark.

The Arkansas job is about 1000% better than the UCONN job.

UCONN has to get themselves into the ACC/Big 10/SEC or they are going to be left behind with the new Pay for Play in College Athletics and I am sure Danny Hurley knows that. He may choose to stay because they can make a run again next year, but after that it is going to get much more difficult because they only get around $4.5 Million per year from the Big East....Whereas the SEC schools get $51.3 Million.

Arkansas doesn't even have to worry about creating a collective with their three Multi Billionaire backers.

Great point. I just refuse to give Cal any credit at this point. I was a believer for far to long. When he left to get milk and the stuff that has come out since. Im good on anything Cal related.

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RLTW!

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ProBlue
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posted 06-07-2024 06:04 PM      Profile for ProBlue   Email ProBlue   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You are right Trey Ball that's why there needs to be a cap on this NIL money for all !! if any team is caught over the limit the NCAA needs to come down hard on the school regardless who it is and make an example of them from the start letting everyone know it will not be tolerated. If not only the rich Multi Billionaire backers schools will win year after year championships !

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ProBlue

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Bama Cat
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posted 06-07-2024 09:44 PM      Profile for Bama Cat   Email Bama Cat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That sounds good but back up and give it more thought. I see it as a way that will cut down on the number of kids that will get NIL money. If you have say $3 Mil in NIL funds for the year and you give half of it to this great big man, which leaves you with $1.5 Mil for the rest of the team. When it gets down to the 6-10 players someone is gonna feel slighted and you'll lose the cameradie of the total team. I don't care which team you use it will work for all teams. The attitude of young kids will not be the same as guys in the NBA over salary differences. It's expected in the NBA but not in college ball.
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rlt4uk
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posted 06-07-2024 09:58 PM      Profile for rlt4uk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'd like to see the kids get nothing. If A free education isn't enough then go pro.

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Bleeding Blue in south Alabama. Kentucky born, Kentucky bred,I'll be kentucky until i'm dead!

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ProBlue
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posted 06-07-2024 10:25 PM      Profile for ProBlue   Email ProBlue   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Best way to back up is like rlt4uk said It's College Ball you know like classes, education! Get rid of one and done. These kids are being filled with pipe dreams. Less than 1 % make the NBA, those that do 60% of them are broke after 5 years out of the NBA. Also they never finish their education. Sad but true !!

[ 06-08-2024, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: ProBlue ]

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ProBlue

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Bama Cat
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posted 06-08-2024 09:37 AM      Profile for Bama Cat   Email Bama Cat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Agree with the previous 2 comments. I also would like to return to the days of old. You either go to college or you don't go. In that case you cut down on the number who think they are good enough to make it in the NBA. Go back to freshman teams and you only get to play varsity for 3 years. You have to sit out a year if you transfer. Still only 4 years of playing college ball. Turn basketball back into a finesse game with no more of this intentional pushing and shoving without a foul and eminate this game we have now of "FOOTBALL WITHPOUT THE HELMETS AND PADS"!
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Tiptree
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posted 06-08-2024 10:27 AM      Profile for Tiptree   Email Tiptree   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The really scary thing is that the traditional universities that are the "power schools" will have to rely upon wealthy donors to play the new NIL game.

But, places like Harvard, Yale, Notre Dame, Stanford, Princeton have endowments in the TENS of BILLIONS of dollars. If they wanted to play the big-time athletics game, they could legally outspend EVERYBODY, and make the rest of the schools fight for the scraps after they buy the best.

Now, wouldn't THAT be a crazy world?

Norm, hate to mention this, but Duke would be in that list of schools with massive resources. UK isn't...

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Tiptree

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson

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ukman
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posted 06-09-2024 09:30 PM      Profile for ukman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Amen RLT4UK. None of them should be getting paid. It all started because they said the players should be allowed to make money of their NAME, IMAGE, AND LIKENESS; not get paid to play. I am 100% fine if a kid gets paid to do a commercial, sign autographs, make an appearance, etc. This is not that AT ALL. Every athlete was essentially getting paid around $100,000+ in scholarship, not too mention the education to earn money the rest of their lives. That, with the true NIL, should be enough for any kid. I absolutely hate what college sports have become. If they are getting paid they should get paid and not receive a scholarship from the University. It's ridiculous that tax money is also going to these kids that are getting paid.
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Trey Ball
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posted 06-10-2024 08:47 AM      Profile for Trey Ball   Email Trey Ball   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I side with the courts and the kids on this.....They absolutely should be getting paid. College Ahtletics is a multi billion dollar business based upon the athletic gifts of the participants.

Without the participants there would not be a multi billion dollar business.

Ask yourself this....Are you willing to work for free? If you answer yes, then I can understand your view. If you answer no, I am not sure how you can have any other view than they should be paid.

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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.

redbone

Posts: 11611 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
WHO?UK
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posted 06-10-2024 10:42 AM      Profile for WHO?UK   Email WHO?UK   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Trey Ball:
I side with the courts and the kids on this.....They absolutely should be getting paid. College Ahtletics is a multi billion dollar business based upon the athletic gifts of the participants.

Without the participants there would not be a multi billion dollar business.

Ask yourself this....Are you willing to work for free? If you answer yes, then I can understand your view. If you answer no, I am not sure how you can have any other view than they should be paid.

Exactly! The Universities exploited these kids for years. Education alone is not enough compensation for the 100s of millions made on their names. Simultaneously the NCAA was penalizing/preventing them even getting a job if they wanted/needed to work. I look at it no different than a kid working his way through school. I had buddies who made great money in college because they had a skill set. I also had buddies who had average paying jobs because they had an average skill set. To me it's all part of the process.

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RLTW!

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PaulCat
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posted 06-10-2024 01:52 PM      Profile for PaulCat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As far as I remember, basketball is an extra-curricular activity. It's not work.

If a kid doesn't like that schools are making money, they can always drop out and really go to work.

Posts: 10356 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
WHO?UK
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posted 06-10-2024 02:41 PM      Profile for WHO?UK   Email WHO?UK   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PaulCat:
As far as I remember, basketball is an extra-curricular activity. It's not work.

If a kid doesn't like that schools are making money, they can always drop out and really go to work.

If your child was playing a sport and the university was selling their jersey for 100s of millions of dollars, then its no longer an extra curricular activity. It's a sweat shop disguised as a sport for the wealthy/political to get more wealth/power.

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RLTW!

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handycat
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posted 06-10-2024 02:48 PM      Profile for handycat   Email handycat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
He’s staying.

https://apple.news/ATyO1qK2bQxmtG8Sfs1g_tQ

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Tiptree
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posted 06-10-2024 07:13 PM      Profile for Tiptree   Email Tiptree   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nope. Not buying it. I am way too traditional and simple-minded for this. I worked in higher education for most of my career. Universities don't exist to pay students for "work". They exist to provide an education.

Those students that Who?UK cited as making big money while in college were not paid that money by the university. They had side-gigs, startups, or whatever. They went to the university to get an education.

If a basketball player wants to "work" as a basketball player, for money, then go pro, go to the G-league, or go overseas.

Basketball players who come to a university to play basketball already have their priorities backwards. But, even if they DO primarily go to college to play basketball, it might just be their only way to get the education they couldn't afford or be qualified to recieve. The product is the education; basketball might just be a golden ticket to get one. But, if the university makes millions off of those players, that is just how the world works.

Look, if I worked for a company, and came up with a nifty patented idea, guess who makes millions off of me? The company. Not me, despite it being my brilliance that came up with the idea.

The idea that because college sports have become so lucrative that the players should get a piece of the pie just isn't how the world works. Superstars can earn their money in professional endeavors. But not students.

And, finally, this NIL/transfer portal madness will permanently ruin college sports. It will become a playground for the wealthy. The only option is to put that genie right back into the bottle. Somebody needs to sue the NBA Players Association to get rid of the blatently discriminatory rule that says kids can't go straight into the NBA from high school.

[ 06-10-2024, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]

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Tiptree

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson

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ProBlue
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posted 06-10-2024 08:50 PM      Profile for ProBlue   Email ProBlue   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
spot on Tiptree

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ProBlue

Posts: 776 | From: Bristol,Tn. | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged
Trey Ball
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posted 06-10-2024 10:01 PM      Profile for Trey Ball   Email Trey Ball   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tiptree:
Nope. Not buying it. I am way too traditional and simple-minded for this.

Well, the courts have all disagreed and even the NCAA disagrees and that is why the NCAA agreed to the $2.9 Billion dollar settlement to "Pay" players. The NCAA could see they were going to lose all of those court cases and it was going to be catastrophic if they did. Instead $2.9 Billion is not catastrophic they have deemed due to the revenue they make off of these kids backs.

The NCAA is hoping by paying players for the past 10 years and in the future the law makers will decides those student athletes are not employees, but that is yet to be determined.

But at the end of the day the NCAA and the courts both know the NCAA has been wrong for many years and this settlement is the first step in fixing that.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/40322936/antitrust-set tlement-creates-certainty-new-system

[ 06-10-2024, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.

redbone

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Trey Ball
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posted 06-10-2024 10:09 PM      Profile for Trey Ball   Email Trey Ball   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It was only a matter of time before this was going to happen and I believe they should win as well.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/ _/id/40322068/1983-nc-state-title-team-members-sue-ncaa-nil-compensation

Laettner/Duke and Kentucky kids from 1992 should be next to file suit.

[ 06-10-2024, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.

redbone

Posts: 11611 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
handycat
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posted 06-11-2024 07:22 AM      Profile for handycat   Email handycat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. I want to go back to the old days where everyone just cheated and tried to beat the system. This is just BS having everything out in the open for everyone to see.

[ 06-11-2024, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]

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PaulCat
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posted 06-11-2024 07:48 AM      Profile for PaulCat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Girl Scout cookies can bring in $800million annually. I wonder how much money those young girls are getting... [Wink]
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Trey Ball
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posted 06-11-2024 10:00 AM      Profile for Trey Ball   Email Trey Ball   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by handycat:
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. I want to go back to the old days where everyone just cheated and tried to beat the system. This is just BS having everything out in the open for everyone to see.

LMAO! [Smile]

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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.

redbone

Posts: 11611 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
ukman
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posted 06-11-2024 10:41 PM      Profile for ukman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Amen Tip! Again, I have no problem with the kids getting paid for an appearance, doing a commercial, signing memorabilia, etc. But they should not be getting "paid" for playing basketball for the university. Their pay is the $30,000-$40,000 tuition they are getting.
Posts: 5451 | From: georgia | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged
Trey Ball
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posted 06-11-2024 11:11 PM      Profile for Trey Ball   Email Trey Ball   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ukman:
But they should not be getting "paid" for playing basketball for the university.

I understand what you guys are saying about how you feel. Just know that once the NCAA Settled for $2.9 Billion.........players will be paid now and into the future. The courts basically told the NCAA to settle or not exist because they were going to lose the cases on the merits of the law. The NCAA got off "cheap" with the $2.9 Billion settlement going back 10 years and are in the process of figure out how to pay athletes going forward.

It's a done deal that athletes will be paid and not paid just NIL.

I just happen to be on the other end of many of the opinions on here and believe they should be paid. Anyone that thinks that players at the Blue Blood schools for the last 45 years have been playing secondary and the "education" they were getting was primary is kidding themselves.

They were just "paid below the table" professionals for a long time. Now they will be paid above the table.

[ 06-11-2024, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.

redbone

Posts: 11611 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Trey Ball
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posted 06-11-2024 11:38 PM      Profile for Trey Ball   Email Trey Ball   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think these are pretty good listens on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4BUHT5la8c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qakz9DOt6WM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--1rqdh0fmA

[ 06-11-2024, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.

redbone

Posts: 11611 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
WHO?UK
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posted 06-12-2024 07:08 PM      Profile for WHO?UK   Email WHO?UK   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Trey Ball:
quote:
Originally posted by ukman:
But they should not be getting "paid" for playing basketball for the university.

I understand what you guys are saying about how you feel. Just know that once the NCAA Settled for $2.9 Billion.........players will be paid now and into the future. The courts basically told the NCAA to settle or not exist because they were going to lose the cases on the merits of the law. The NCAA got off "cheap" with the $2.9 Billion settlement going back 10 years and are in the process of figure out how to pay athletes going forward.

It's a done deal that athletes will be paid and not paid just NIL.

I just happen to be on the other end of many of the opinions on here and believe they should be paid. Anyone that thinks that players at the Blue Blood schools for the last 45 years have been playing secondary and the "education" they were getting was primary is kidding themselves.

They were just "paid below the table" professionals for a long time. Now they will be paid above the table.

Way better than I could have articulated it. I just look at the big ticket items that brought the NCAA here. O’bannon brothers and the Manziele. If we actually knew the amount of money that the NCAA and universities made off these kids, I’m sure we would be dumbfounded.

I’m happy they are getting paid. I’m also enjoying the wild Wild West of the NCAA right now because it’s entertaining. Ill also be happy when they figure out how to regulate it in the form of some sort of cap.

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RLTW!

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ukman
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posted 06-12-2024 08:08 PM      Profile for ukman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I understand what you guys are saying, but I agree with what tip said. IF I am an employee of a company and come up with some great invention, or idea for them, they are going to be the one making the most money. I may get a nice promotion, pay raise, etc. I know schools make a lot of money off of the teams and players, but the kids are getting a lot of benefits, along with an education that really is invaluable for the future. I get them making money off of their own ventures that come outside of playing the game. Their education, along with the money they can make off NIL, should be enough pay. A lot off them would not have the opportunities they get without the school.

I know there was underhanded stuff all along, but it typically wasn't millions of dollars, or hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's here to stay, I just hate it.

Posts: 5451 | From: georgia | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged
Trey Ball
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posted 06-12-2024 10:47 PM      Profile for Trey Ball   Email Trey Ball   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ukman:
IF I am an employee of a company and come up with some great invention, or idea for them, they are going to be the one making the most money.

A couple of huge points that are a big difference between being an employee at a company selling a product to an end consumer vs. what the NCAA has been doing for years in my opinion.

1. You would be an employee of said company. The NCAA is ADAMENT that the athletes are not employees and want to keep it that way.

2. Your company more than likely sells a product or a service that does not involve you as the "main" ingredient in such product or service.

Without the athletes the NCAA has absolutely nothing to sell.

So the NCAA has said for years. You are not an employee and should not be paid because of such, but "YOU" Mr./Mrs. Athletes ARE the product I am selling and you get none of that as well.

It is absolutely ludicrous that they NCAA was allowed to make BILLIONS per year and not pay the athletes. Slavery was abolished in this country in 1865......unless you happened to be a collegiate athlete....."collegiate slavery" will be abolished in 2025 FINALLY.

[ 06-12-2024, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

--------------------
Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.

redbone

Posts: 11611 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Trey Ball
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Member # 332

posted 06-12-2024 10:55 PM      Profile for Trey Ball   Email Trey Ball   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ukman:
I know there was underhanded stuff all along, but it typically wasn't millions of dollars, or hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's here to stay, I just hate it.

I would also say you would be surprised at the amount of money that was changing hands among the top colleges and athletes.

My collegiate roommate at Ball State University was a high jumper on the track and field team and was pulling down $10k per year from "boosters" from 1988 to 1992. A high jumper on a MAC track team. Crazy stuff at a small school. I sometimes use a consultant at work. He played football for Miss State from 1972 to 1975. He got paid back then to play. Received a new car his first day on campus at Miss State. He was recruited by Alabama and Coach Bryant and has told me a story about keeping the change of $100 bill after Bear Bryant had him go get Coke's for them to talk. Told him to keep the change and if he came to Bama that would be in his mailbox everyday.

Watch the Johnny Manziel special. He was rolling in Cash at Texas A&M, the Fab Five at Michigan were as well. Watch "The Scheme" and you will just see how much money was changing hands and how it was going down.

Think about it, the FBI got involved because of the amount of money that was changing hands under the table. The Scheme goes into detail on how they wanted to entrap the coaches to make it a Federal offense but Christian Watkins would not give any of them up and went to prison himself. He did alright though because he kept all of the money the dirty FBI agent had given him.

I will also say I used to be on the side as you and Tip and the NCAA, but I started to evaluate it and it just didn't make a lot of sense to me that it was right.

Link to a preview of "The Scheme"

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11916278/

[ 06-12-2024, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.

redbone

Posts: 11611 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
PaulCat
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Member # 513

posted 06-13-2024 07:35 AM      Profile for PaulCat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Trey Ball:
Slavery was abolished in this country in 1865......unless you happened to be a collegiate athlete....."collegiate slavery" will be abolished in 2025 FINALLY.

Trey, I'm starting to think that we took different history classes in high school. I'm pretty sure that back in 1865 Mr. and Mrs. Peabody weren't providing their slaves a free college education, excellent shoes and clothing, free airfare/travel when they were loaned out to other slave farms, top of the line boarding houses, as well as all the extras that come with being a college athlete (such as strippers and - oh wait, that was just Louisville). Also, and I think this might be important - they probably didn't provide a choice. I respect just about everything you post on this board, but to compare college athletics to slavery??? C'mon, bro. [Smile]
Posts: 10356 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
WHO?UK
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posted 06-13-2024 09:27 AM      Profile for WHO?UK   Email WHO?UK   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Trey Ball:
quote:
Originally posted by ukman:
IF I am an employee of a company and come up with some great invention, or idea for them, they are going to be the one making the most money.

A couple of huge points that are a big difference between being an employee at a company selling a product to an end consumer vs. what the NCAA has been doing for years in my opinion.

1. You would be an employee of said company. The NCAA is ADAMENT that the athletes are not employees and want to keep it that way.

2. Your company more than likely sells a product or a service that does not involve you as the "main" ingredient in such product or service.

Without the athletes the NCAA has absolutely nothing to sell.

So the NCAA has said for years. You are not an employee and should not be paid because of such, but "YOU" Mr./Mrs. Athletes ARE the product I am selling and you get none of that as well.

It is absolutely ludicrous that they NCAA was allowed to make BILLIONS per year and not pay the athletes. Slavery was abolished in this country in 1865......unless you happened to be a collegiate athlete....."collegiate slavery" will be abolished in 2025 FINALLY.

As Cody Fueger would say. BOOM!

--------------------
RLTW!

Posts: 878 | From: Savannah Ga | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tiptree
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posted 06-13-2024 10:46 AM      Profile for Tiptree   Email Tiptree   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Let's play a thought experiment. I already posted the TENS OF BILLIONS that the Ivy-league schools have in their endowments that they could, if they chose, use to "buy the best athletes".

Let's make another conjecture. Elon Musk's compensation was just approved by the board of Tesla. He makes $56 BILLION per year. He graduated from the University of Pennsylvania, one of the Ivy League schools. What if he decided to donate $20 billion each year to UPenn's athletic department? I am sure he would be OK living off of the remaining $36 billion. And what if UPenn went on to dominate all college sports for the next 2 decades? $20 billion would be sufficient to pay 200 athletes a "salary" of $10 million dollars a year.

Would you still be OK with this system? Should the school with the biggest donors win?

[ 06-13-2024, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]

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Tiptree

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson

Posts: 13648 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
ukman
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posted 06-13-2024 02:32 PM      Profile for ukman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If they are going to truly be paid then they should not have scholarships given to them by the university, which is coming from tax payer money. There also need to be a cap system put in place and some structure to it.

They are definitely not slaves as they have a choice, they are getting an education in return for their services, they can leave whenever they want, they get free room and board, free food, and get clothes shoes, etc.

Again, NIL money is totally acceptable. Go make money off of yourself, but if you are paid to go play somewhere then the scholarship should go back to the school or used on a walk-on, etc.

I'm out now. Good points on both sides, but I think we all can agree that it's a mess.

Posts: 5451 | From: georgia | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged
Trey Ball
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Member # 332

posted 06-13-2024 04:31 PM      Profile for Trey Ball   Email Trey Ball   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

It is absolutely ludicrous that they NCAA was allowed to make BILLIONS per year and not pay the athletes. Slavery was abolished in this country in 1865......unless you happened to be a collegiate athlete....."collegiate slavery" will be abolished in 2025 FINALLY.
Oh, come on, Trey. Really???? Students are not slaves. There is nothing they do that is not 100% voluntary. Playing the "slavery" card is just ridiculous, and now opens up the whole race-baiting thing.

quote:
I would also say you would be surprised at the amount of money that was changing hands among the top colleges and athletes.

My collegiate roommate at Ball State University was a high jumper on the track and field team and was pulling down $10k per year from "boosters" from 1988 to 1992. A high jumper on a MAC track team. Crazy stuff at a small school. I sometimes use a consultant at work. He played football for Miss State from 1972 to 1975. He got paid back then to play. Received a new car his first day on campus at Miss State. He was recruited by Alabama and Coach Bryant and has told me a story about keeping the change of $100 bill after Bear Bryant had him go get Coke's for them to talk. Told him to keep the change and if he came to Bama that would be in his mailbox everyday.

Watch the Johnny Manziel special. He was rolling in Cash at Texas A&M, the Fab Five at Michigan were as well. Watch "The Scheme" and you will just see how much money was changing hands and how it was going down.

Think about it, the FBI got involved because of the amount of money that was changing hands under the table. The Scheme goes into detail on how they wanted to entrap the coaches to make it a Federal offense but Christian Watkins would not give any of them up and went to prison himself. He did alright though because he kept all of the money the dirty FBI agent had given him.
So, your argument is saying "Well, everybody was cheating anyway, so let's just make it legal".

Hmmm... so, if enough people engage in illegal activity, it should just be OK? Or, more than OK, sanctioned?

Nope. Not for me. I will exit this debate, but it seems you are speaking from "what is", and I am speaking from "what should be". I categorically reject the idea of paying college athletes on principle that, in fact (as the NCAA insists), they are not employees.

In fact, I would argue that the reason that the NCAA is willing to do this is to divert the attention away from the real corruption, which is within the NCAA itself. What is the mission of the NCAA? Who controls it? How much money does it need to accomplish its mission?

THOSE are questions that should be looked into.

Lastly, as ukman suggested, what the courts ruled was that students should be able to make money off of their name, image, and likeness. I am 100% OK with that. But that is VERY DIFFERENT from what it rapidly evolved to, which is essentially allowing billionaires to legally pool money to implement a pay-for-play system. It isn't tied to selling licensed t-shirts or gear or making TV commercials. It is now an unregulated playground for the uber-wealthy. And, if you want to go back to your 'slavery' concept, are not students now being bought?

1. Courts - Athletes deserve NIL. Check.
2. Courts - NCAA member universities can directly pay athletes. This was a class action lawsuit settlement with the NCAA Settling for $2.8 to $2.9 Billion (they got off cheap). NCAA to provide Power 5, $20 million annually to pay athletes. Check.
3. Collectives - NCAA tells members that collectives are allowed to pay above the $20 million allotment. Rules to yet be determined.

All I am saying is, you may not like it, but these are the rules going forward.

So yes, if Penn/Harvard/Ball State/Wabash College could end up dominating if they so choose.

[ 06-13-2024, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

--------------------
Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.

redbone

Posts: 11611 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Trey Ball
Administrator
Member # 332

posted 06-13-2024 04:34 PM      Profile for Trey Ball   Email Trey Ball   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ukman:
I There also need to be a cap system put in place.

For a power 5 school, the NCAA has alloted $20 million per school. How they decide to allocate between men and women, revenue and non-revenue, etc has not been decided.

Collectives though....which are also allowed has no cap or structure at the moment.

Scholarships are effectively/basically eliminated as well with the University payments. Each of those links I put on briefly go into that. So I think you will see the number of players per team drastically decrease, at least from basketball. I could see most teams only carrying 8 or 9 players per year.

[ 06-13-2024, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

--------------------
Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.

redbone

Posts: 11611 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged
Tiptree
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Member # 844

posted 06-14-2024 12:00 AM      Profile for Tiptree   Email Tiptree   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Then my days as a fan of college sports are, sadly, about over.

I refused to watch pro sports when the salaries became ridiculously high. Sure, the quality of play is (usually) superior, but I really didn't like to watch overpaid, spoiled, whiney brats play a sport, then claim some sort of "victim" status to boot.

Now, it seems, the same (or worse) is in store for college sports. I fail to see how this in any way contributes to the mission of any university or college. it started off as club sports, then league sports, then money-soaked, corrupt sports, then over-regulated-but-still-corrupt sports... money begat money, and television viewers had an insatiable appetite for sports, and MORE money drenched the college sports world... and now it suddenly has become its own entity, a world only loosely connected with the university.

Now, it is IMO completely disconnected. It is a pay-for-play system with vestigal affiliations with universities. I hope some university with principled leadership simply says "enough", and cuts the cord with the athletics department. No need to "pretend" to be students... just play minor-league sports.

RIP, college athletics. It was good for a while...

[ 06-14-2024, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]

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Tiptree

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson

Posts: 13648 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
handycat
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posted 06-14-2024 12:16 PM      Profile for handycat   Email handycat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Coleman Hawkins just committed to Kansas State for two million dollars after dropping out of the NBA draft. He has 1 year of eligibility left.I realize few, if any, on here recognize the name. He played for Illinois, who I also follow closely. He was a good college player, certainly not great. He was predicted to go late second round in the draft. IMO, he would never have set foot on an NBA court.

So now he is a “college pro” who will go to few, if any classes. I would bet my left testicle on that. This is a student athlete? He is just one of many examples.

I don’t know the legalities of any of this, but for me NIL and the transfer portal have destroyed major collegiate athletics. I’m afraid this is past the point of no return.

I’m thinking seriously about becoming a girls beach volleyball fan.

Posts: 5433 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844

posted 06-14-2024 12:39 PM      Profile for Tiptree   Email Tiptree   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
’m thinking seriously about becoming a girls beach volleyball fan.
Alas, the last frontier. But it is already corrupted by corporate sponsorships. I am afraid those tiny bikinis may have to get larger to display the sponsor logos. Or maybe tattoos. Whatever.

--------------------
Tiptree

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson

Posts: 13648 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged


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