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Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 04-06-2010, 10:59 AM:

Wall is going to the NBA this year but this article points out some legitiment reasons why he should wait.

So, what is more important — another year in college or a fast break into one of the most unforgiving leagues in professional sports? One route almost guarantees lifelong success, while the other only dazzles dollars in exchange for a shortcut, which could inevitably be fateful in the worst possible way.
I could cite ridiculous examples of failures and successes until I’m blue in the face, but the fact is – getting to the league early only guarantees one thing – money.

So if you’re that agent looking at him as merely a business proposition, I challenge you to forget about your cut of the monetary gain and think about the person before the player. I challenge you to become an advisor before a business partner (for lack of a better word, an agent).
I expect Mr. Wall will have heard and will see nearly every voice and face in the sports industry. For him I would advise three things:
1.Ask yourself; what do you want your legacy to be in the next 10, 15, or 20 years?
2.How important is money to your short-term and long-term happiness?
3.What would it mean to win an NCAA National Title and share this with your friends, family, and peers?
The glitz and excitement of what lies ahead will always be there – cheap and opportunitistic people will come and go, the draft will be there next year (if not, then in 2012), but your image and more importantly your legacy will live forever.
John Wall – I challenge you to define yourself before others define you.

Link

Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 04-06-2010, 11:07 AM:

That writer is having a pipe dream. John Wall is as good as gone, as he should be. So should Cousins.

Posted by CATTRACKER (Member # 55) on 04-06-2010, 11:13 AM:

Only one word would describe Wall if he came back to UK for another year: FOOLISH!

Posted by BlueCollarMan (Member # 2114) on 04-06-2010, 11:48 AM:

Or Joakim Noah-ish. Neither one is good. [Wink]

Fred

Posted by WildcatFanatic (Member # 2932) on 04-06-2010, 12:01 PM:

I respectfully disagree. If he does come back I hope you call him a fool to his face. Maybe you should call Patrick Patterson a fool too? There is nothing wrong with getting an education and enjoying your youth while you have it.

Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 04-06-2010, 12:08 PM:

That could possibly be the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life. John Wall just needs to look at two words to make the right decision:

DeShaun Butler

Posted by casedog (Member # 1436) on 04-06-2010, 12:12 PM:

He can enjoy his education after he's completed a guaranteed contract for $12 million over 3 years.

Posted by WildcatFanatic (Member # 2932) on 04-06-2010, 12:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by casedog:
He can enjoy his education after he's completed a guaranteed contract for $12 million over 3 years.

Well personally I think anyone that would pay him that much would be crazy. But I understand why John Wall is saying it's a really tough decision whether to leave or not. I would respect his decision either way.

Posted by casedog (Member # 1436) on 04-06-2010, 12:37 PM:

The NBA rookie salary structure for the first round is pretty rigid. If he's selected first overall, that's about what he would be paid, no negotiation.

I would love to see John Wall play basketball for UK again. I enjoyed watching just about every moment he was on the court. However, if he goes at worst he is going to set his family up financially for life. If he comes back he could lose everything if he's injured.

Posted by bigbluerev (Member # 1633) on 04-06-2010, 12:43 PM:

quote:
That could possibly be the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life. John Wall just needs to look at two words to make the right decision:

DeShaun Butler

I totally 100% disagree with this argument. The number of career ending injuries suffered by college athletes is miniscule.

Consider for a moment that DeShaun Butler was just as likely, if not moreso to get injured in his first NBA game, or maybe even earlier, such as in the preseason. Lets assume that injury was of the same seriousness. Now, in that scenario what would Deshaun Butler have gained and what would he have lost? He would have gained some sum of money, a large sum of money to be correct. He would have lost his NBA career. Now lets assume that DeShaun Butler had taken out insurance on his career, like Patrick Patterson did. With the injury he incurred in his last game what would he have gained and what would he have lost. He would have gained some sum of money, a large sum of money to be correct. He would have lost his NBA career.

Either way thye player loses their NBA career. Either way they receive a large sum of money. The other thing to be lost by some of these players, as mentioned by Wildcat Fanatic is his youth and the enjoyment thereof.

I'm not saying that players should not be allowed to make the decision to leave early but it bothers me a great deal to hear someone say that choosing a path other than grabbing the most money you can grab is foolish. There are scores of examples of people in all manner of fields, sports and otherwise that have made similar decisions and are very happy having done so. John Wall has every right to go on to the NBA and he has every right to decide that can wait. He is not a fool for choosing either one.

Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 04-06-2010, 12:49 PM:

bigbluerev,

You are making a huge assumption though. That assumption being that the player can afford to pay for a large insurance policy.

My guess is the NCAA puts limits on the amount of insurance you can take out (I'm not positive, but I think that is the case) and my guess it is a lot less than John Wall could be potentially worth and second and the most important is you are assuming that John Wall or any said athlete can afford such policy. My guess is the premium on those policies are somewhere between $10,000 and $25,000 to take out.

Posted by casedog (Member # 1436) on 04-06-2010, 12:50 PM:

BBR,

You are right. We are assuming that it is John Wall's dream to play in the NBA. Not knowing John Wall personally, I certainly can't speak to what is in his heart.

You remind me of the example of that DB from Florida State who delayed the NFL to accept a Rhodes Scholarship. Clearly a case of someone following something they love rather than just pursue a pile of cash.

However, if it is John Wall's dream to play in the NBA, then there is no better time to do so than when you are presumed to be the number one pick. Which for John Wall, is now.

Posted by bigbluerev (Member # 1633) on 04-06-2010, 12:58 PM:

quote:
My guess is the premium on those policies are somewhere between $10,000 and $25,000 to take out.

Why would you guess that? I certainly do not have data to back me up but I would be surprised, based on the small number of such occurences of a career ending injury, that the premium would be anywhere near that amount. In addition I am pretty sure I read recently that the NCAA allows for financial assistance for such a policy.

[ 04-06-2010, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: bigbluerev ]

Posted by CATTRACKER (Member # 55) on 04-06-2010, 01:08 PM:

I wonder if Lebron James missed his 'youth' by not attending college at all. I'd say he lives with the regret.

From wiki:
'At just 18, he was selected with the number one pick in the 2003 NBA Draft by the Cavaliers and signed a US$90 million shoe contract with Nike before his professional debut.

Current salary: $15,779,912 a year'

Posted by lumafia (Member # 3118) on 04-06-2010, 01:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bigbluerev:

quote:
My guess is the premium on those policies are somewhere between $10,000 and $25,000 to take out.

Why would you guess that? I certainly do not have data to back me up but I would be surprised, based on the small number of such occurences of a career ending injury, that the premium would be anywhere near that amount. In addition I am pretty sure I read recently that the NCAA allows for financial assistance for such a policy.

You're still assuming the kid, or his parents, can afford such a policy.

The point is, it doesn't get any better than the #1 overrall pick. If he was a 10-20ish pick, one could argue that he could play himself into an overrall pick.

Also, with the lockout looming, there is a pretty good chance that the money the kids get this year will be twice as much as what kids will get over the next 10-12 years.

Posted by casedog (Member # 1436) on 04-06-2010, 01:16 PM:

You are absolutely right.

The NBA is poised to blow up it's current salary structure. NBA teams are NOT doing well, and owners have both the desire and the leverage to get signifigant concessions in the next round of bargaining.

Posted by CATTRACKER (Member # 55) on 04-06-2010, 01:49 PM:

And don't forget the ENDORSEMENTS of a player like Wall. They'll probably swamp his actual NBA salary.

Believe me, I'd love to have him and Cousins, along with PPat back for another year....but these kids would be CRAZY(is that a better word??) to not go for this kind of money RIGHT NOW! If I was Wall, I probably wouldn't even ride in a car right now due to the possibility of an 'accident'.

Once he puts his name on that dotted line, he can go buy him a big HARLEY if he wants to and ride off into the sunset with both saddle bags stuffed with $100 bills--and that's only the tip of the iceberg for him. [Wink]

Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 04-06-2010, 02:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CATTRACKER:
Once he puts his name on that dotted line, he can go buy him a big HARLEY if he wants to and ride off into the sunset with both saddle bags stuffed with $100 bills--and that's only the tip of the iceberg for him.

His contract probably will not allow him to do that since Jay Williams had his career ended in a bike accident. [Wink]

Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 04-06-2010, 02:11 PM:

That's too bad, too. I'd rather see Williams on the court than in the booth making his ridiculous comments. He's a terrible analyst.

Posted by CATTRACKER (Member # 55) on 04-06-2010, 02:36 PM:

Metaphorically speaking anyway, Trey. [Wink]

Posted by bigbluerev (Member # 1633) on 04-06-2010, 02:45 PM:

My assumptions are irrelevant. My point is that it is not foolish for someone to make their decision based on something other than grabbing as much money as you can as soon as you can.

Posted by viperz (Member # 289) on 04-06-2010, 02:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bigbluerev:
My assumptions are irrelevant. My point is that it is not foolish for someone to make their decision based on something other than grabbing as much money as you can as soon as you can.

That seems a bit naive. That's like saying that it wouldn't be foolish to burn a winning lottery ticket.

Posted by bigbluerev (Member # 1633) on 04-06-2010, 03:06 PM:

quote:
That seems a bit naive.

What is Naive about it?

Could you be making more money if you had made different choices? For example gone further in school and delayed getting married or having children or even completely foregone marriage and children. Or maybe even more simply worked more hours or a second job. Are any of you doing a job that pays less but you enjoy more? If so, you made your choices based on something other than just money.

John Wall has every right to choose to go on to the NBA this year. He would not be a fool if he did so. He also has every right to decide to postpone that decision for something else he wants. He would not be a fool for doing that either.

There are two points that I put forth 1) Making a choice based on something other than just money is not foolish and 2) the career ending injury argumnet is greatly over-exagerrated.

Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 04-06-2010, 03:16 PM:

The NCAA offers insurance policies against career-ending injuries that pay $5 million dollars for a premium of roughly $18,000 per year.

Many elite prospects supplement that with private insurance to go up to 20 or 25 million in coverage, but the premiums are extra steep (I think a comparable $5 million dollar policy from a private insurer costs between $25,000 and $30,000 per year).

So, it ain't cheap. I suspect that banks might be willing to float a loan against such a policy, however, given the certainty of payback either way!

[ 04-06-2010, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]

Posted by WildcatFanatic (Member # 2932) on 04-06-2010, 08:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bigbluerev:

quote:
That seems a bit naive.
What is Naive about it?

Could you be making more money if you had made different choices? For example gone further in school and delayed getting married or having children or even completely foregone marriage and children. Or maybe even more simply worked more hours or a second job. Are any of you doing a job that pays less but you enjoy more? If so, you made your choices based on something other than just money.

John Wall has every right to choose to go on to the NBA this year. He would not be a fool if he did so. He also has every right to decide to postpone that decision for something else he wants. He would not be a fool for doing that either.

There are two points that I put forth 1) Making a choice based on something other than just money is not foolish and 2) the career ending injury argumnet is greatly over-exagerrated.

Great post bigbluerev. I agree 100%. I don't think John Wall had any idea how much he would enjoy continuing his education, playing basketball for UK and simply enjoying the latter days of his youth.

Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 04-06-2010, 08:50 PM:

How many people here have quit a job to take another job for substantially less money? I did, and the older I get, the less I worry about money. Money isn't everything. Not even close.

What would Wall do with $10million dollars if he had it tomorrow? He wouldn't know what to do with it.

Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 04-06-2010, 08:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by viperz:

quote:
Originally posted by bigbluerev:
My assumptions are irrelevant. My point is that it is not foolish for someone to make their decision based on something other than grabbing as much money as you can as soon as you can.
That seems a bit naive. That's like saying that it wouldn't be foolish to burn a winning lottery ticket.

I'd say it's more like waiting a year to cash in a winning lottery ticket. Do you really believe Wall wouldn't be in the same shape if he stays at UK for another year?

Posted by boomdaddy (Member # 2644) on 04-07-2010, 06:19 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by PaulCat:

quote:
Originally posted by viperz:

quote:
Originally posted by bigbluerev:
My assumptions are irrelevant. My point is that it is not foolish for someone to make their decision based on something other than grabbing as much money as you can as soon as you can.
That seems a bit naive. That's like saying that it wouldn't be foolish to burn a winning lottery ticket.
I'd say it's more like waiting a year to cash in a winning lottery ticket. Do you really believe Wall wouldn't be in the same shape if he stays at UK for another year?

If a player is projected as the top pick in the draft, please explain how that player can improve his position by playing another year in college? There is nowhere to go but down or risk injury.

Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 04-07-2010, 06:24 AM:

In what area would he go "down"? Why can't he stay the same? Is Wall suddenly gonna lose his skill before next season?

[ 04-07-2010, 06:26 AM: Message edited by: PaulCat ]

Posted by casedog (Member # 1436) on 04-07-2010, 07:25 AM:

You never know what can happen. Jo Noah was projected to go 1-3 his junior year, but dropped to the latter half of the lottery.

Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 04-07-2010, 01:32 PM:

bbr:\
[QUOTE The other thing to be lost by some of these players, as mentioned by Wildcat Fanatic is his youth and the enjoyment thereof. [/QUOTE]

Happiness is the pursuit of your dreams. If that is money and fame, an NCAA championship, a teacher, or simply being able to provide for your family..... it doesn't matter.

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 04-07-2010, 02:13 PM:

Good point MM, it's the satisfaction in living in a country where you have right to better yourself without having to be told what to do and how to do it. It's called individuals freedom of choice.!

Posted by prophet (Member # 2089) on 04-07-2010, 04:20 PM:

I seriously doubt that the writer is African-American and the child of a single-mom (father died at early age for John) who is seriously ill. As the playwright so succinctly stated:

quote:
“It is easy when we are in prosperity to give advice to the afflicted.”