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Topic: Oscar is a beast!
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 12-10-2022 03:29 PM
Someone else may have said this first, not sure. 😀
If not for him, we probably lose this game. I think we may be able to say this about several of our games this year.
IMO, Yale will give several good teams fits this year. Lots of basketball savvy, slower play, pretty good 3 point shooters and, surprisingly, decent defense.
Posts: 5398 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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ukman
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posted 12-10-2022 05:37 PM
Oscar is a beast and we most likely lose without him, which is scary to me. Yes, Yale is a pretty solid team but a team we should beat by 20 or more. Cal needs to figure out a different offense for this team to maximize ALL our weapons. If he doesn't I could honestly see us finishing 4th or lower in the SEC. Alabama just beat Houston, Arkansas is good, Tennessee is really good, Auburn will be good, MISS State is ranked, and I hear people say that Texas AM is going to be tough this year. Wallace has the talent to be scoring 15 a game against good competition, same with Reeves. Cal has to get those 2 more shots and Wheeler less shots. We are gonna need more ball movement and less wasted dribbling, along with more movement out of the players. I'd like to say it's the players standing, but that's just Cals offense. A smart team (Michigan State, Gonzaga) will figure out how to stop this weak offense. It's too easy to guard against. Right now we just have to hope our guys can just beat the other team off the dribble and I'm sot sure that's the best offense for this team. Especially the way we clog up the lane so much to take away driving lanes. I would also like to see a lot more of Livingston. Wouldn't mind seeing Wallace, Reeves, Livingston, Toppin, and Oscar starting. we'll have a good matchup next week against UCLA. Hope the team has a great week of practice and get better each day. I really like the makeup of this team. We should be able to score 75+ against good competition. We haven't scored 75 in 4 of the last5 games, and some were not great teams.
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Tiptree
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posted 12-10-2022 06:57 PM
Handy, can you please arrange for Cal to get on a Zoom call with us? He clearly needs our help.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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ukman
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Member # 3032
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posted 12-10-2022 07:47 PM
I'm guessing sarcasm, but that's okay. I think people would agree that our teams have not really been living up to expectations in recent years, and this one is not either. And I'm not just talking about BBN expectations, I'm talking about media and so forth. Love UK, just don't think the coach is worth 9 million and I have never been a fan of his coaching. Recruiting, definitely. And no, I don't want Billy G back. I just want this coach to try some different things instead of sticking with the same stuff he's been using for the last 20 years, or looking at adapting some. There's been several reports in the recent past about NBA Gm's, etc talking about Cal's outdated offense. Hope the whole team gets things together and we make a final four run. I would enjoy seeing that again.
I'd be happy to hop on a call if it gets set up:). Cal could give me advice on publicity, recruiting, interviews, maybe investments, relating to players, working refs, managing a huge budget, fundraising for the community, etc.
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Tiptree
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posted 12-10-2022 07:56 PM
Nothing directed at you. In fact, if you read my posts, I say much of the same things as you said. I was referring to Handy's claim that Cal calls him for advice. I assume that must have stopped... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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ukman
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posted 12-10-2022 08:02 PM
Even if it was, no issue here. Just very frustrated with this coach and what UK has become. This program deserves the very best and I certainly don't think we get that.
I thought you agreed some. I think if Cal gave a few of us a chance we could install a few really good offenses for this team. Probably add at least 10 points a game:)
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handycat
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posted 12-11-2022 07:44 AM
Hell Tip, he won’t even take my calls anymore. I still talk to Ellen on a weekly basis but we avoid basketball issues. Ukman probably doesn’t realize I was Cal’s top assistant for years. Stoops is the one relying on my vast sports knowledge now.
[ 12-11-2022, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posts: 5398 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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ukman
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posted 12-11-2022 09:35 AM
I did remember someone on here had Cal's ear, just couldn't remember who. Maybe you can convince Ellen to get you a sit down with Cal and we can get you back in there
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Bama Cat
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Member # 153
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posted 12-11-2022 10:21 AM
Hell I didn't know someone had reincarnated Redbone ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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PaulCat
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posted 12-11-2022 11:21 AM
Without Oscar, this is an N.I.T. team.
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ukman
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posted 12-11-2022 06:21 PM
Do you think without Oscar they should be? I mean, do you guys think that talent wise this is a good tournament team if we didn't have Oscar? I'm not talking about the coaching, just the talent of the team. Personally I think with a different system this team could still be good with an adequate post. As it currently is with the coaching I would say we are dead without Oscar.
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Tiptree
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posted 12-11-2022 06:49 PM
Cal is using Tshiewbe like he used KAT ... everything must go through him.
That leaves the rest of the team with no real drive to do anything other than do what they are told -- pass the ball into the post, go stand in the corner, or just watch.
If Tshiewbe goes down, the Big Guy would probably play the post. He is good on defense, but not much of a primary threat on offense. That would force Cal to design his offense for the shooters (or the drivers). Not sure he could do that to expectations, but Reeves, Wallace, and CJ would be "featured" instead of option 2 or 3.
One thing that I have noticed is that both Toppin and Ware have become pretty good at the two-man interior game. They pass the ball well to Tshiewbe if they draw the defense. I like that... we can keep that going even with the other Big Guy. But we really need our shooters to be freed up for great looks. Toppin and the Big Guy can hit the boards with the best of them.
[ 12-11-2022, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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Trey Ball
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posted 12-11-2022 07:25 PM
Toppin did a nice job of passing to the post in the second half, but other than that he has a lot of empty minutes on the court. I would much rather see CJ and Livingston take those minutes, but Cal will never do it. He loves Toppin for whatever reason. I said all last year that Hopkins should have been getting Toppin’s minutes. Cal wasn’t taking my calls last year either.😂
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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.
redbone
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Bama Cat
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posted 12-11-2022 08:28 PM
We got some of the best players on this team. The problem is as most of you know the offensive scheme we run. Without Oscar we wouldn't have near as much of a chance to make the final four, let alone make the top 20. It would all depend on whether we could get even as good a look at the basket without him. I'm not convinced that CJ will ever become a big threat with this offense. We make a lot of bad misses and some bad plays when we get out of control. Wheeler is playing sporadically and Wallace makes some freshman mistakes that hurt. I also would like to see Livingston get more chances. The big question, not that I mind, is Ware still not playing due to an injury???
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Tiptree
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posted 12-12-2022 11:51 AM
There are certain basic 2-man offensive tactics that almost always work.
The pick-and-roll.
The pick-and-pop.
The give-and-go.
We certainly have players capable of executing any of these.
Add a little sophistication with the other three players actually moving and creating havoc, spreading the defense with good spacing, and occasionally even (*gasp*) setting some double-screens for our shooters, and we have the players AND the system to score 75+ a game.
Right now, I would agree to starting Livingston in place of Toppin, or at least give him more floor time. CJ hasn't impressed me; maybe he is too worried about getting injured again?
I would definitely start Wallace, Reeves, and Tshiewbe. In my mind, they have all proven themselves game in and game out. The other two slots are, in my opinion, open to whoever earns them. Let Livingston, Ware, Toppin, Collins and Onyenso battle for the '4' spot. Let CJ, Thiero, and Wheeler fight for the other guard spot. Maybe we start Onyenso and Tshiewbe in the high/low post offense. Or put Wheeler, Wallace, Reeves, and CJ in with Oscar for a 4-out scheme. Heck, ANYTHING but the system we run now!
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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ukman
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posted 12-12-2022 12:51 PM
Unfortunately, I think CJ just isn't fit for this system. It's too bad because I feel he could be a real weapon in the right offense. But this is not the offense for him.
Like I said, I'm sure if Cal would just meet with us we could get this team 10 more points a game. Great thoughts.
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handycat
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posted 12-12-2022 02:47 PM
I agree CJ is not a good fit for Cai’s offense. I thought that before he ever played a minute in a UK uniform. He is more athletic than I gave him credit for and plays better defense than I thought he would. Still, he is not up to Calipari’s standard in either athletic ability or defensively.
Like it or not, Cal just doesn’t run a lot of plays for individuals to get them shots. I have no idea if he is simply inept or that is just the way he wants to run his offense.
The one player who gets more minutes than I think he deserves is Wheeler. Out of control too much, can’t shoot and too short. Coaching might improve the control issue but at this stage of the game I don’t believe it will improve his outside shot. Unless he is really only 13, I doubt he grows significantly.
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ukman
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posted 12-12-2022 03:58 PM
Agree Handy. While Wheeler averages 7 assists a game, he dribbles way too much and takes too many shots. He would pass quicker and get the ball moving I feel our offense might be better. He should not take more that 6-7 shots a game, and they should all be layups.
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Trey Ball
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posted 12-12-2022 05:16 PM
Agree on Wheeler as well, but once again Cal loves Wheeler and he loves Toppin and generally those guys take a majority of the shots and they are the TWO worst offensive players on the court. Makes absolutely zero sense.
I could see them getting tons of minutes if they were defensive stoppers, but neither are that either. It just blows my mind.
I would love to see Oscar/Wallace/Reeves/Livingston/Frederick on the court together for an extended 10 minute run. I will almost guarantee that would be a huge plus/minus in favor of the Cats with that lineup. That lineup forces the opponent to not double down on Oscar or if they do double there is going to be a better than average shooter with a wide open three.
When you have Toppin and Wheeler on the court, the help to double and triple team Oscar is coming from Toppins's and Wheeler's man because there is no concern from the opposing team of consistently getting hurt from the double and triple team. The Yale coach even pointed that out in his press conference. That would change is Livingston and Frederick were out there.
It's not rocket science.
[ 12-12-2022, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]
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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.
redbone
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PaulCat
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posted 12-12-2022 06:54 PM
Wheeler's game would improve drastically if he would just stop shooting 3-pointers. If I was an opposing coach I would tell my team not guard Wheeler unless he has the ball in the paint. Otherwise, let him shoot.
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Tiptree
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posted 12-13-2022 01:40 PM
I looked at our season stats when I saw your post, Trey. I was shocked to see that Toppin has taken 100 shots this year -- more than anybody on the team. It just doesn't seem to be so, but it is.
Second highest is Reeves, at 97 shots. Almost a tie with Toppin.
Thired is Tshiewbe, at 83. NO WAY Toppin or Reeves should have more shots than Oscar!
Next in line is Wallace, with 68, and then Wheeler, at 67 (near-tie).
(1) Let's compare the two point guards, Wallace and Wheeler:
Wallace hits 54% of his shots overall, Wheeler only 39%.
Wallace shoots almost half of his shots from the 3-point line, and makes 51% of them. Wheeler shoots about 1/3 of his shots from the arc, and hits a mediocre 31% from 3.
Wheeler has shot more FTs, but made only 13 of 22. Wallace has made 8 of 14. Both are barely above 50% from the line, which is unacceptable for a point guard.
Wallace is the better rebounder, especially on the offensive glass, while Wheeler dishes a lot more dimes. Wallace leads the team in steals, more than doubling the steals of Wheeler (the supposed "defensive pest").
Interestingly, Wallace has played more minutes that Wheeler, probably due to Wheeler's injury earlier in the season. I think a case can easily be made that Wallace should get a lot more minutes, and Wheeler a lot fewer.
(2) Looking at Reeves vs. Frederick:
Reeves has played more, shot more, and scored more.
Shooting: CJ takes a shot on average every 3.5 minutes he is on the floor. Reeves takes a shot every 2.3 minutes. CJ is hitting overall 40% of his shots, and Reeves hits 43%. But the big difference is the kind of shots. CJ is clearly a designated 3-point shooter; 71% of his shots are from the arc, where he hits only 36% of them. Reeves takes 58% of his shots from the arc, but he drains a whopping 48% of those. He shoots better from the arc than he does from the floor.
A case can be made for Reeves to get more time, and shoot more threes.
So, from my perspective, Tshiewbe, Reeves, and Wallace MUST be on the floor most of the game.
The other two spots are open for discussion. Toppin rebounds well enough to keep him in the rotation, but he should NOT be getting so many minutes, or be shooting so many shots! He grabs about one rebound ever 4.2 minutes; compare that to Oscar who grabs a rebound evert 2.1 minutes, or at twice the rate. Surprisingly or not, Onyenso grabs a rebound every 2.5 minutes! Gotta wonder why Cal doesn't get him more time on the floor. But Toppin is number three, so that deserves some attention.
Livingston grabs a rebound every 4.8 minutes, and that is generally playing from the wing. He also shoots better (46% to 42%), hits his FTs better (92% vs 64%), and plays better defense (IMO). I would give Livingston a lot more minutes, and Toppin fewer.
Ware is an interesting case. He doesn't rebound nearly as well as Livington or Toppin (one board per 6.4 minutes), but his shooting percentage is insanely high -- 73%. He is much more disciplined in his shot selection than Toppin or Livingston. And, he has a lot of steals -- about one steal every 12.8 minutes, better than Toppin (one every 51 minutes), or Livingston (one every 24.8 minutes). I like his game and his attitude; he should be in the rotation for the 4 spot.
But, let's go back to Onyenso. He is a beast at defending the rim... he leads the team in blocks despite playing only 10 minutes a game. He gets a block every 5.3 minutes! That can really change the tone of a game. He also shoots 63% from the floor, and rebounds almost as well as Tshiewbe. I see no reason why he plays so few minutes.
So, I would perfer Livington over Toppin, especially if we get more minutes for Onyenso for his defense and rebounding. He would probably get the starting nod along with Tshiewbe, Reeves, and Wallace. Let the fifth spot be situational -- Onyenso some games, Wheeler some games, Ware some games, CJ some games. But the top 4 need to be playing a lot of minutes together if we are going to make a run for the prize.
I can't stop thinking about having Wallace, Reeves, Tshiewbe, Onyenso, and Livingston or CJ on the floor at the same time. Twin beasts in the paint, two or three potent shooters on the arc, great defense... I think that would be an awesome combination.
[ 12-13-2022, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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ukman
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posted 12-13-2022 05:53 PM
That's a great post Tip. I think you should send that breakdown over to Cal. Maybe a look at the actual numbers would wake him up before it's too late and we waste another season. I would love to see Wallace, Reeves, Livingston, Toppin/Onyenso/Ware, and Oscar.
I feel that Cal is pressuring Toppin to shoot that much and to attack the basket, but that's not his game. He needs to be that energy guy that Cal used to talk about all the time. Rebound, defend, set solid screens, get out on the break and finish, etc. Whoever will do that the best should start at the 4. Or go small and put Livingston at the 4 and then CJ or Wheeler at the other guard spot. I would still like to see what CJ could do for us if we just moved the ball better and set some screens.
There are honestly a good number of options depending on the opposition and situations, but Cal just seems to be in some set substitution pattern that really doesn't make much sense. It's just like he feels "well I gotta keep guys fresh, and I need to get guys some minutes so here we go." I don't understand why he barely ever puts reeves on the floor with CJ, or why he hasn't tried Onyenso and Oscar together, etc. His coaching just baffles me and has for years. Each year I get excited about the team and the guys we have, and all the possibilities. Then I see Cal coach them a few games and all my optimism goes away. I end up just hoping that we will make it to a sweet sixteen, when I should be expecting to make it to an elite 8 every year with the talent he has had.
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m hamilton
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posted 12-13-2022 05:54 PM
As far as number of shots compared to Oscar, remember Oscar sat out the first couple of games of the season. It is possible that when you add their shots in those first few games that's what puts them above Oscar!
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Tiptree
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posted 12-13-2022 09:51 PM
I would love to see a high-low post game with Onyenso and Tshiewbe, with two or three shooters on the arc. Man, there could be some bone-rattling picks set on the high post for our shooters. The pick-and-roll would be our go-to play. Get some meaningful motion by our guards cutting through, setting screens, and stretching the defense, and nobody could stop us on offense.
Option 1: The pick and roll with Oscar setting the pick and rolling. Unstoppable with a little bodying-up from Onyenso on anybody rotating to help against Tshiewbe.
Option 2: Guards cut through the defense and pull out the defenders. Onyenso gets the easy dunk off the lob or post pass.
Option 3: Oscar and another guard set a double screen and CJ/Reeves/Wallace drain the three
Option 4: If all else fails, go to a 2-man game in the post, and let Tshiewbe get his 40.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 12-14-2022 04:41 PM
my 2 cents if cal doesnt take handy's calls anymore maybe he could text ellin and paste tip's stats - maybe she is talking to him!
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ukcatfannfl
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handycat
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posted 12-14-2022 05:37 PM
Good thinking! I’ve already copied and pasted and sent to Ellen. Of course I told her these were my stats and idea's
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ukman
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posted 12-14-2022 06:40 PM
The only thing with the picks is that we never set solid picks. We are terrible at them. With the picks up top the guys always roll or cut before the dribbler even gets there with the defender and there is absolutely no real pick set. We have been doing that for the last several years and it drives me crazy. On the dumb circle play the guys on the block don't set good picks, and are runners never come right off their shoulder so they are never really open once the receive the ball on the wing..
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Tiptree
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posted 12-14-2022 10:31 PM
I have noticed that too, ukman. When we Do set picks, they are absolutely the worst picks I have ever seen. "Wimpy" is the word that comes to mind.
Setting picks is fundamental team basketball 101. But it sure isn't part of Cal's curriculum.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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