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Author
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Topic: Expanation on the Kanter situation..
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catmandoo
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Member # 1284
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posted 08-24-2010 08:34 PM
This does not sound good as it seems unlikely the NCAA will give Calipari and Kentucky any benefit of the doubt on the elgibility situation.
The issue with Enes Kanter is one of amateur eligibility, specifically whether he received benefits while playing for a Turkish professional team that would render him ineligible to be classified as an Amateur. That is the rules problem, but the practical problem for UK is much more of an issue. The Turkish team where Kanter played and the Turkish Federation are offering no help to UK in its attempt to get Kanter eligible. The NCAA now allows for players who were on professional teams in Europe to play college basketball, so long as they were paid solely in expenses, and not in salary. Thus what the NCAA and the University of Kentucky need in order to prove eligibility, is proof of exactly how and in what form, Kanter was compensated. Did he just get living expenses, similar as to what happens at American prep schools…or was he given a salary like a full-time professional player? That question determines whether Kanter can qualify under the new rule.
However as might could be expected, only one entity has that information…Kanter’s former Turkish team. Kanter was a seldom-used reserve for the team Fenerbahce Ulker. As is the custom in Turkey, young players are signed to deals, as early as age 15 and then if they reach success, play for the professional club and are then given professional salaries when they get older (usually age 17-20). This system works in Turkey and is the method for the production of young college basketball players, instead of the American college system. The Turkish Federation wants Kanter back and has no interest in helping make Enes eligible to play American college basketball. In fact, they have the exact opposite interest. What Calipari is attempting with Kanter could have long term implications for college and European basketball. If he can bring Kanter to America, make him a Top 5 pick in one year, then the theory goes that other Europeans will follow suit at Kentucky and other American Universities. This can only hurt the European basketball leagues, who have benefitted from having young players who NBA teams want, and potentially will have to buy out of their contracts.
Thus with no incentive to help the NCAA, Kentucky, Kanter or basically anyone not in Turkey, the Turkish Federation is stalling and UK/Kanter are suffering the consequences. UK and Kanter have done all they can. They have given all the information they have and are hoping for a decision. But the NCAA wants records of what was given to Kanter by the Turkish team. If that doesnt come, it is unclear what the NCAA will do. Will they deem Kanter eligible and say all is good? Will they make him eligible, but with the understanding that if salary payments are discovered later, UK could be ineligible (making UK have to put a lot of trust in Kanter)? Or will they deem him ineligible because there is not enough proof to say one way or the other? IF the NCAA makes the last choice, then teams in Europe will have a path to be able to keep their young players from coming to America…simply dont cooperate with the NCAA or college institutions. One would think that isnt the precedent the NCAA would want, but with that institution, who knows.
So now UK and Kanter are in a holding pattern…attempting to get info from a source that doesnt want to give it. How this finally plays out will likely determine just how good Kentucky can be this coming season.
Link
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http://www.ukfightsong.com/
Posts: 186362 | From: st. augustine florida 32092 | Registered: Mar 2001
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 08-25-2010 05:33 AM
We sure do need this big guy, he is going to be a major key to the success of our upcoming season. Hopefully they can get this straightened out before November.
Posts: 17777 | From: Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: Jun 2005
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catmandoo
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Member # 1284
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posted 08-25-2010 07:12 AM
Ray the scary part and makes it worse is that i have heard Vargas hasn't arrived in Lexington yet and his classes at Miami Dade have been over for some time..
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http://www.ukfightsong.com/
Posts: 186362 | From: st. augustine florida 32092 | Registered: Mar 2001
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 08-25-2010 08:16 AM
I have been concerned about Vargas and his situation all summer long. Something just don't seem right there. Lots of uncertainties on our roster for this season. We need some big bodies for rebounding, shot blocking etc. The team we saw play in Canada is very talented but lacking in size with the exception of Harrelson. All we can do is keep our fingers crossed and hope.
Posts: 17777 | From: Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: Jun 2005
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WildcatFanatic
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Member # 2932
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posted 08-25-2010 08:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by catmandoo:
Ray the scary part and makes it worse is that i have heard Vargas hasn't arrived in Lexington yet and his classes at Miami Dade have been over for some time..
He should be here. Fall classes start today.
Posts: 1531 | From: Lexington, Ky | Registered: Jan 2008
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BlueCollarMan
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Member # 2114
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posted 08-25-2010 09:27 AM
With all the slimeballs that we have behind the scenes in collegiate and professional sports, I don't think that they hold a candle to lack of ethics that you see in organized sports around the rest of the world.
Fred
[ 08-25-2010, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: BlueCollarMan ]
Posts: 6815 | From: The Best College Sports Town in America . . .ha, ha. | Registered: Oct 2003
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BlueCollarMan
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Member # 2114
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posted 08-25-2010 09:30 AM
Even if they decide to play him on his word that there were no payments, it's like that these Turkish pondscum will trump up payment and give them to the Chicago-Sun Times.
Fred
Posts: 6815 | From: The Best College Sports Town in America . . .ha, ha. | Registered: Oct 2003
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SCWC
Player
Member # 2464
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posted 08-25-2010 10:01 AM
That's whats so scary about the Kanter situation Fred, I wish we could get this all cleared up so we could sort of visualize this year's team in its entirety. I don't see the NCAA going out of their way to help us at UK though.
Posts: 17777 | From: Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: Jun 2005
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PaulCat
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Member # 513
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posted 08-25-2010 10:23 AM
Good ol' US of A - guilty until proven innocent.
If Turkey really wanted him back, why not just come out and say they paid him a salary?
[ 08-25-2010, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: PaulCat ]
Posts: 10349 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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Bama Cat
Player
Member # 153
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posted 08-25-2010 10:41 AM
I would tend to say that the NCAA would want documented proof from the Turks in this case. I'm sure they understand the deal about them loosing their good players to the NBA. Sort of like the Cubans who defect to the USA when the olympics are held.
Posts: 14198 | From: berea, ky, usa | Registered: Sep 1999
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catmandoo
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Member # 1284
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posted 08-25-2010 11:45 AM
The more you actually hear whats going on the more doubts arise..Scrary to say the least.
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http://www.ukfightsong.com/
Posts: 186362 | From: st. augustine florida 32092 | Registered: Mar 2001
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bigbluerev
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Member # 1633
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posted 08-26-2010 07:30 AM
I have a bad feeling this is why the Cats were working so hard to get DeAndre Daniels - because they are less confident now that Kanter will be playing.
I really despise the NCAA
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Personal Responsibility - stop looking to the government or anyone else to take care of you. www.GodMakesSense.com www.RefreshingRain.com
Posts: 1806 | From: Cold Spring, KY | Registered: Feb 2002
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boomdaddy
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Member # 2644
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posted 08-26-2010 07:34 AM
I wouldn't be suprised to see the NCAA give the thumbs up on Kanter and recant the ruling in the middle of the season. What they did to Memphis was reprehensible.
Posts: 8791 | From: paris, ky | Registered: Mar 2006
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catmandoo
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Member # 1284
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posted 08-26-2010 07:39 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if they don't let Kanter even see the floor as a college player. They have that power and are not afraid to use it.
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http://www.ukfightsong.com/
Posts: 186362 | From: st. augustine florida 32092 | Registered: Mar 2001
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catmandoo
Player
Member # 1284
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posted 08-26-2010 07:49 AM
bigbluerev posts: I have a bad feeling this is why the Cats were working so hard to get DeAndre Daniels - because they are less confident now that Kanter will be playing.
bbr, to go along with what you say here is the latest on Daniels.
Some late news from the basketball world is that Deandre Daniels and UK now look apart again. UK and Daniels were still in talks as late as yesterday to potentially try and make him part of the 2010 class. A source tells me that the plan was for Daniels to visit UK’s campus on Wednesday to discuss the possibility of coming and being part of this class. However for whatever reason, he did not make the trip and late tonight, he told Zagsblog.com that he is headed to prep school. I am not sure why Daniels didnt make the trip, but that decision likely ends his involvement with UK in 2010…at least for now.
Link
[ 08-26-2010, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: catmandoo ]
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http://www.ukfightsong.com/
Posts: 186362 | From: st. augustine florida 32092 | Registered: Mar 2001
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Wildcat Bill
Player
Member # 615
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posted 08-26-2010 02:54 PM
I think that there is now no way that Enes Kanter will play for UK, probably ever. The NCAA will just sit on their duffs and act innocent, knowing that the Turks won't help. But even if they "cleared" him, immediately after the season somebody, somewhere would come up with "proof" that Kanter was indeed paid and the NCAA could then do precisely what they are dying to do: vacate all the wins, much to the delight of the usual gang (Knight, Tipton, Forde, SI, ESPN, The New York Times, TMZ, and all the other muckrakers out there).
It's a real shame. He seems like a very personable young man who has great skills and abilities who could have been a huge contributor for us this year. Had he stayed at Washington, there is no doubt in my mind that he'd have been cleared to play immediately and no amount of documentary proof from Turkey or anywhere else would have either been necessary for him to be cleared to play or would have been accepted later as evidence of professionalism. Such is the high bias of the NCAA, an organization that is completely without scruples or ethics. And to think that they "police" the colleges! Who "polices" the NCAA?
We'll probably have a pretty good season anyway, even if we do have to play as an undersized team. But we won't be nearly as good as we would have been if we had Kanter playing. We'll be sort of like a more talented Unforgettables. If we play with the heart of the Unforgettables, it can still be a memorable season, much to the consternation of the NCAA and their above mentioned cronies. Wouldn't that be something? Maybe they'll try and find a way to say that Brandon Knight shouldn't have been admitted because his 4.0+ high school GPA is somehow erroneous. Good luck with that one, NCAA.
Anyway, it's really too bad about Enes, and I certainly hope that there is some way that unequivocal(whatever may constitute that for the NCAA, an affadavit from the Almighty perhaps) proof can be obtained that would clear the way for him to play for us. However, lacking that, I guess we'll have to soldier on without him.
Go Big Blue!
[ 08-26-2010, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Wildcat Bill ]
Posts: 1070 | From: Evansville, IN, USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 08-26-2010 05:32 PM
quote:
It's a real shame. He seems like a very personable young man who has great skills and abilities who could have been a huge contributor for us this year. Had he stayed at Washington, there is no doubt in my mind that he'd have been cleared to play immediately and no amount of documentary proof from Turkey or anywhere else would have either been necessary for him to be cleared to play or would have been accepted later as evidence of professionalism. Such is the high bias of the NCAA, an organization that is completely without scruples or ethics. And to think that they "police" the colleges! Who "polices" the NCAA? quote:
Very well put Bill. You echo my sentiments exactly.
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catlogic15
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Member # 1227
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posted 08-27-2010 09:37 AM
I realize logic doesn't exist in the same sentence with NCAA, but how can you make a kid ineligible based on what may be a fact, without substantiation of that fact? That's like convicting someone of murder based on rumor.
Posts: 921 | From: Louisville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2001
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 08-27-2010 10:32 AM
I think he plays this year. Coach knows that or he would not have brought him in. Have faith!
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ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8771 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
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Wildcat Bill
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Member # 615
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posted 08-27-2010 01:47 PM
catlogic 15, that's exactly the point that I've been trying to make about the NCAA: There is no due process with them, no presumption of innocence, no proof beyond a resonable doubt, none of the constitutional protections that we give to the most vile of criminals. You are guilty until proven innocent by the NCAA. And when they clear you (sort of like trying you for an alleged crime and finding you innocent) then you can later be a victim of "double jeopardy" like Memphis was last year. Their clearance means absolutely nothing. Double jeopardy is also prohibited by our legal system. Of course the NCAA acts as it's own legal system, being the investigator, prosecutor, and judge and jury as well as appellate court. And if they don't like you, well then...you've got no recourse because it's a "voluntary" organization to belong to and the members supposedly make up the rules and endorse the enforcement arm's actions.
Really, at some point there just needs to be either a total housecleaning at the NCAA to get rid of their pompous and biased culture or a secession of the key universities (i.e. the big money making schools that keep the whole thing afloat) and a re-formation (a Reformation if you will) of this organization.
Right now, theoretically, I or anyone could make contact with a recruit of, say Texas or any other school, and I or someone else could claim to the NCAA, or better yet to the news media, that I offered him some illegal inducements. I could be labeled by the NCAA as an
"Athletic Interest" of Texas, and the NCAA would probably have to punish Texas because there would not exist any definitive proof, other than their denials, that I was not an Athletic Interest of Texas and had not offered illegal inducements. That's what presumption of guilt requiring proof of innocence can lead to.
Anyway, as this applies to the Kanter situation, I never lose the faith (ukfannfl), but I am also realistic about this situation. Relying on the good offices of the NCAA to help Kentucky out, or at least to be fair, particularly with Coach Cal as our coach, who they clearly don't like, is not a situation that I find much basis to be optomistic about. I hope I'm dead wrong and Kanter plays this season. No one would be happier than me.
Go Big Blue!
[ 08-27-2010, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Wildcat Bill ]
Posts: 1070 | From: Evansville, IN, USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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Wildcat Bill
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Member # 615
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posted 09-08-2010 03:08 PM
Some prophetic comments in this thread a few weeks ago.
Posts: 1070 | From: Evansville, IN, USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 09-08-2010 05:07 PM
That’s what Gary Parrish seems to think, as outlined in this brief writeup on the situation. Here’s an excerpt:
…All of which suggests John Calipari must’ve realized there was a real chance he could enroll Kanter but never actually coach him once the NCAA weighed in.
But you know what else Calipari probably realized?
That it was a gamble worth taking.
Remember, any questions about Kanter’s amateur status aren’t questions that have anything to do with Kentucky. It all centers on what happened before Kentucky was involved with Kanter, as everything that affected Renardo Sidney’s status at Mississippi State last year centered on what happened before Mississippi State was involved with Sidney. So this isn’t a case where the Wildcats opened themselves up to various issues. Either they would enroll Kanter and get him cleared or enroll Kanter and not get him cleared. There never was any real downside. And to those claiming it now looks silly given where this seems to be headed, I’d remind you that you still don’t know where this is headed, and that Kanter ultimately could be dealt a punishment that delays his college debut rather than ends his college career, in which case the big picture remains intact.
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ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8771 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
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Bluecat
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Member # 516
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posted 09-08-2010 06:18 PM
Heartbreaking to write this, but I don't think Kanter will be allowed to play at Kentucky. Vargas and Terrence Jones, will be playing the five spot all season.
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Bluecat
Posts: 8489 | From: louisville, ky, usa | Registered: Mar 2000
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