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Author
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Topic: Chinese Flu.
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ukcatfannfl
Player
Member # 1425
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posted 03-28-2020 09:42 PM
True MM - I know ur heart is right.
My point is how the governors response. Some better than others. This is no time for them to make political points like some are. See Cumo.
Just do ur job and help the Fed govt out...
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ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8771 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
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Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844
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posted 03-28-2020 11:11 PM
quote:
The way I see it is the Federal Government is the man of the house. When the house catches on fire you don't tell your family to find their own way out.
Actually, Norm was correct. This IS the defining difference between modern Democrats and Republicans.
Our form of government is a Federal Republic. At least, it is supposed to be. The Republic part means we are not a direct democracy, but a representative one. The Federal part means that we are a federation of states. The constitution defines precisely and completely the powers of the Federal government. All other powers are reserved for the states.
Ironically, the two parties started off very different than today. The democrats favored decentralized power, and the first Republican greatly expanded the federal government's power.
The civil war was not only fought over slavery, but over the balance of power between the states and the federal government. When Lincoln was elected as the first Republican president, he was elected on an abolitionist. The "slave states" played their ultimate trump card, secession, since the writing was on the wall that unless they left the union, their economic base would be harmed. Lincoln actually moved the power center strongly away from states to the Federal government.
Since then, however, it has been the democrats who tend to enlarge and expand the power and reach of the federal government, while the Republicans try to resist that and even (rarely) shrink it. FDR stretched the reach of the Federal government in ways that rendered the constitution moot. LBJ did even more.
Reagan succeeded in pushing back in a limited way, and Trump is trying his best to do the same. George W Bush actually expanded the Federal government (TSA, Medicare part D, etc.).
Look at the two parties' platforms. The democrat planks all expand and enlarge the Federal government. The Republican planks favor non-governmental solutions.
Back to this crises, Ed is correct. It is the states' responsibility to mobilize and act in times of domestic crisis. The GOVERNOR is the "man of the house", not Trump. The Feds created FEMA and other agencies to coordinate and augment, but it was never intended to be the primary response. Each state can mobilize the national guard (surprisingly, none have!), each state has a public health office, each state has its own disaster response organizations.
Trump could have acted sooner, but in our system of government, that would NOT have been appropriate. It is designed to be that way. If you want efficiency, go live in an autocratic state. If you want liberty, you must accept some trade-offs.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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MEL
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Member # 141
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posted 03-28-2020 11:32 PM
Very well said Tip.
The only bad part (for the Dems) is if everyone went with this the media wouldn't have anything to blame on President Trump.
MEL
Posts: 2795 | From: Greeley, CO, USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 03-29-2020 07:09 AM
If this is the states responsibility why is the President talking about Quarantines in several states and saying they would be enforced? Once again, I’m confused.
[ 03-29-2020, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posts: 5410 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 03-29-2020 07:35 AM
Tip:
quote:
If you want efficiency, go live in an autocratic state. If you want liberty, you must accept some trade-offs.
I didn't know that liberty and efficiency were incompatible. Even so, the trade-off shouldn't be chaos and death, which is where we are now.
We have states competing for, even stealing, precious PPE supplies from other states. FEMA is stealing them from everybody, with nobody knowing where they're going and who is going to get them...No coordination whatsoever!
All the while we have nurses and doctors terrified and stressed to the breaking point begging and pleading for help.
I bet these folks have a whole different perspective on what "appropriate" is.
MEL:
quote:
The only bad part (for the Dems) is if everyone went with this the media wouldn't have anything to blame on President Trump.
This is the same old "poor me" persecution that Trump has embraced and cultivated his entire life.
Like Trump said: "I take no responsibility at all"...one of the few times I agree with him.
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
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ukcatfannfl
Player
Member # 1425
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posted 03-29-2020 07:50 AM
" Trump said: "I take no responsibility at all"...one of the few times I agree with him."
I think MM you are taking that statement out of context! I remotely remember a member of the press asking about the virus in general, and trump responding..
Enlighten me if I am wrong!
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ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8771 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 03-29-2020 07:53 AM
"We have states competing for, even stealing, precious PPE supplies from other states. FEMA is stealing them from everybody, with nobody knowing where they're going and who is going to get them...No coordination whatsoever!"
If you (state) ask for fed help (FEMA) then you have to abide by their priorities! Stealing is the wrong word!
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ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8771 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 03-29-2020 07:58 AM
"The civil war was not only fought over slavery, but over the balance of power between the states and the federal government. When Lincoln was elected as the first Republican president, he was elected on an abolitionist. The "slave states" played their ultimate trump card, secession"
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BTW MM On March 20, 1864 the Republican Party of the United States was founded by slavery opponents at a schoolhouse in Ripon, Wisconsin.
So it has always been the democrats that have used and abused the black population of this great country as they continue to do by "giving" stuff for votes...
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ukcatfannfl
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 03-29-2020 08:13 AM
Ed:
quote:
I think MM you are taking that statement out of context! I remotely remember a member of the press asking about the virus in general, and trump responding..
Enlighten me if I am wrong!
Context is definitely important.
Link
quote:
So it has always been the democrats that have used and abused the black population of this great country as they continue to do by "giving" stuff for votes..
Like bailing out the farmers!
[ 03-29-2020, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
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EnterpriseCat
Player
Member # 2881
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posted 03-29-2020 08:14 AM
South Korea has about a sixth of our population and in the winter months most of the citizens wear masks even when there is no virus outbreak. That had to help keep the spreading of the virus down.
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Romans 8:38-39
JD4U
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 03-29-2020 08:18 AM
Quote by me If this is the states responsibility why is the President talking about Quarantines in several states and saying they would be enforced? Once again, I’m confused.
I see now he has tweeted that the quarantine will not be necessary at this time. He obviously believes he has the authority to dictate to the states what they should do in this pandemic.
Not to be more obtuse than normal, but again, does he has the authority to do this or is he full of sh*t?
[ 03-29-2020, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posts: 5410 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 03-29-2020 08:38 AM
"Context is definitely important."
You might want to relook at video..
he shouldn't take responsibility for the errors of previous administrations. Obama never did - he just
blamed bush.
Trump is not a politician - he tells it like it is and some cant stand it!
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ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8771 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 03-29-2020 08:39 AM
Ed:
quote:
I sorta like talking with you - tks missed it!
Welcome back, Ed!
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 03-29-2020 08:48 AM
Ed:
quote:
he shouldn't take responsibility for the errors of previous administrations.
More deflect and blame. Nobody is asking Trump to take responsibility for previous admins errors...just his.
The question was does he take any responsibility for the lag in testing. The answer was "I take no responsibility at all"....none, nada.
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 03-29-2020 08:52 AM
The question was does he take any responsibility for the lag in testing. The answer was "I take no responsibility at all"....none, nada.
If anything he was out in front of it by closing travel etc. Of course the dems got on him for doing it. He has the foresight that a politician does not. See Biden's response for example
lack of testing falls directly on the previous admin lack of refilling the shelves and the current state govts lack of doing anything until Trump jumped in....Trump recognized the treat early and went to work..
[ 03-29-2020, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
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ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8771 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 03-29-2020 09:22 AM
Ed:
quote:
If anything he was out in front of it by closing travel etc.
That was a good move, no question. Still, the first confirmed case in the US was Jan 20...The travel ban took effect Feb 2...two weeks later.
quote:
lack of testing falls directly on the previous admin lack of refilling the shelves
Honestly, I can't think of a weaker argument....it's been 3 YEARS!
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 03-29-2020 09:29 AM
hc:
quote:
does he has the authority to do this or is he full of sh*t?
If the situation were dire enough that he declared Marshall law I would say yes he has the authority.
On the other part...I would also say yes.
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 03-29-2020 09:33 AM
"Honestly, I can't think of a weaker argument....it's been 3 YEARS!"
Try this - The Governors shuld have been in full prevention, until such time as the feds get up to speed. Fact of the matter - the feds before trump never made an effort to replenish supplies - you can bet ur bottom dollar that there will now be a whole new system in place after this - something that Obama should have done after his crisis.
Blame Trump is all you guys got - doesn't matter what is going on - it is his fault..
Sad part the Democratic party is a joke and a laughing stock - two old guys who have been in congress over 40 yrs each and now somehow they are going to run the country even though they haven't done anything up to now! best you got!
A Democratic house run by a ding bat whose members added so much nonsense "pork" to a national crisis bill to exploit the American people for things they want. i.e Kennedy center. planned parenthood etc. Any registered democrate should be hiding his head in shame the way that party has turned to a far left agenda - see AOC..
[ 03-29-2020, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
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ukcatfannfl
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 03-29-2020 09:51 AM
Ed:
quote:
something that Obama should have done after his crisis.
Obama did handle it poorly and was damn lucky to avoid a disaster. He did however recognize that and put in place a national emergency response unit to keep track of possible pandemic threats...Trump dismantled it!...can't wait to see what this "new system" looks like.
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 03-29-2020 09:59 AM
I certainly don’t blame Trump for this pandemic or past presidents for theirs. I’ve stated many times, I support most of his decisions and policies. I’m sure he has made some mistakes handling this crisis but anyone else would have as well. I’m also positive he is incapable of admitting any of them. The vast majority of criticism of Trump stems from the intense dislike of him as a person.
IMO, we need to put this aside, at least during this national disaster.
I’m an unashamed conservative and Republican. That doesn’t prevent me from recognizing boorish inappropriate behavior when I see it. We need to support the policies and forget the character issues. I have to keep reminding myself of this.
[ 03-29-2020, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posts: 5410 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 03-29-2020 10:08 AM
hc:
quote:
IMO, we need to put this aside, at least during this national disaster.
I couldn't agree more, hc.
But, you know what, we won't...and the result is going to be catastrophic!
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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