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Topic: still undefeated, but a long way to go
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ukman
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Member # 3032
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posted 01-24-2015 02:53 PM
It is a great season, and our defense is awesome. However, the offense is not very good. I haven't thought so for a while now. I know there will be people that say I am crazy, or just negative. We are averaging about 16 assists per game, which is very good, but our offensive sets are not good. There is a lot of standing, mindless passing out top at times, and then dribble and try to beat your man one on one. If we were to ever get more motion in our offense, more screens away from the ball, we would be near impossible to guard imo. I guess I am just a huge fan of passing and moving, and I do not enjoy our offense as much as I would like. Enough downside though. We have a great team, unbelievable talent, and I love the way they have bought into the shared minutes. If our offense does catch up to our defense we will go undefeated.
Posts: 5441 | From: georgia | Registered: Jan 2009
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m hamilton
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Member # 127
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posted 01-24-2015 03:19 PM
A lot of improvement to still be had in this team. Especially by our big boys!
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The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
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m hamilton
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Member # 127
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posted 01-24-2015 03:20 PM
When we push the ball inside our big guys aren't finishing the play inside!
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The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
Posts: 123991 | From: vevay, IN USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 01-24-2015 03:24 PM
You give a very good assessment UKMan. If our offense ever catches up with our defense, we could truly be an outstanding team. We are an outstanding team already with many areas of the game in which we need to improve on before tournament time. If they can get their offense in sync with their defense, they truly can be a very special team for us.
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m hamilton
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Member # 127
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posted 01-24-2015 03:34 PM
Rebounding and free throw shooting could stand improvement
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The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
Posts: 123991 | From: vevay, IN USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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m hamilton
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Member # 127
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posted 01-24-2015 03:35 PM
Jones asking, "Is it possible the Towns comes back and Booker goes?"
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The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
Posts: 123991 | From: vevay, IN USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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catmandoo
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Member # 1284
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posted 01-24-2015 03:36 PM
Booker is more ready than KAT "if" they keep playing like they are now.
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catmandoo
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Member # 1284
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posted 01-24-2015 03:38 PM
ukman, you bring up very good points and hard to disagree anything you say.
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catmandoo
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Member # 1284
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posted 01-24-2015 03:41 PM
It seems like we are depending on our talent and defense and not on the basics of good basketball on the offensive side of the ball.
[ 01-24-2015, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: catmandoo ]
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m hamilton
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Member # 127
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posted 01-24-2015 03:57 PM
Putting ourselves continually out of position by going for the block rather than going for the rebound!
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The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
Posts: 123991 | From: vevay, IN USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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ukman
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Member # 3032
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posted 01-24-2015 04:04 PM
And I am not killing Cal here, but I have never thought our offense has looked that great since he has been here. There has never been much motion to the offense, or screening away from the ball to get guys open. He obviously is a great coach when you look at everything, but I would say his weakness is offensive execution. And this does not mean I want him to go anywhere, I am very happy, just would love to see great movement on offense. I enjoy watching great passing, screening, and movement.
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Tiptree
Administrator
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posted 01-24-2015 04:16 PM
ukman,
Cal's 'preferred' offense, the so-called Dribble Drive Motion Offense, really doesn't utilize screens. In its purest form, it is a 4-out, 1-in set where the motion is more like a collapsing weave -- one player drives, draws a defender or two, and either shoots, dishes to the big on the weak-side block, or passes to another perimeter player (either a shooter or a second driver). If it is to a second driver, the process is repeated (which is why I call it a "collapsing weave").
I would say you would rarely see a classic motion offense, with screens on and off the ball. I think we came close to that with the 2010 team, and the 2012 championship team featured some of these standard sets, but most of the time he runs either the DDMO, a classic post-up inside-out set, or the high-post screen. Last year he ran a lot of pick-and-roll sets (as well as in 2010).
Any of those will work, if executed well. It just seems that he spends more time and effort on developing the defense first. Later in the season, he brings the offense along. I think that is the right order to do things, so I look forward to a better offense in March. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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m hamilton
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Member # 127
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posted 01-24-2015 04:31 PM
And when your team only gets 3 offensive rebounds for the game, it's hard for your offense to look good when we count on second chance points being our greatest offensive play!
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The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
Posts: 123991 | From: vevay, IN USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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Bama Cat
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Member # 153
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posted 01-24-2015 04:35 PM
I found myself wondering if we were ever going to build a lead until about 8 minutes to go in the game. It seems we are playing into the hands of these lowly rated teams on offense. They all want to slow it down and we are more than happy to oblige them. We can't seem to sustain any speed to our game and like has been said already, just stand around dribbling and passing it around the outside. Then Andrew drives it, or tries to drive it and either gets trapped with the ball and no where to go with it. Karl and Trey look less like they are ready to leave now than they did 10 games ago. Unless Johnson has a wide open shot he gets it blocked almost every time. Right now the only way I see any of these three guys leaving is strictly on potential. They are not improving to the point where they are showing they are ready to compete in the NBA. Maybe they can by the end of the year.
[ 01-24-2015, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Bama Cat ]
Posts: 14173 | From: berea, ky, usa | Registered: Sep 1999
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m hamilton
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Member # 127
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posted 01-24-2015 04:42 PM
I'd say we are shooting 15-20 shots less per game than Coach would prefer we did!
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The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
Posts: 123991 | From: vevay, IN USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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m hamilton
Player
Member # 127
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posted 01-24-2015 04:43 PM
We only took 39 shots today!
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The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
Posts: 123991 | From: vevay, IN USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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ukman
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Member # 3032
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posted 01-24-2015 05:15 PM
Tiptree, I do understand the dribble drive and Cals preference for that, but we don't even run that very well or very often. There just seems to be a lot of standing around. I just want more movement and less standing and watching. Hopefully they will start to work on the offense a little more while keeping up the good D.
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Tiptree
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posted 01-24-2015 06:16 PM
I agree with you, UKman. When the twins are in there, it seems we get less motion (unless either Aaron takes it strong to the hole or Andrew tries the same thing and gets lost without an outlet ![[Frown]](frown.gif) ).
But when Ulis is in, we get a lot more penetration and subsequent motion on offense. The team chemistry seems to be better. Booker finds an open spot on the arc, our bigs get loose on the baseline... it all seems to work smoother with Ulis in and initiating the offense.
IMO, The twins should both be playing the wings as long as Ulis can play.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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catmandoo
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Member # 1284
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posted 01-24-2015 08:24 PM
Ulis gets 6 of the 10 assists we made for the game. He is the player that is making the biggest effort to get the ball to the right person at the right time. He did all this in only 20 minutes of playing time where Andrew got got 2 assists in 27 minutes of play.
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Green-Bean
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Member # 13551
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posted 01-24-2015 09:13 PM
UK MAN U ARE SPOT ON, OUR HALF COURT OFFENSE, IS NOT GOOD AND THAT IS ON CAL, CAL IS NOT A GREAT X AND O GUY, HE DEPENDS ON THE DRIBBLE DRIVE, THAT IS A OFFENSE, THAT U PLAY ON THE DIRT COURT, THE 1 FOUR OFFENSE AS IT IS CALLED BACK IN THE DAY,ITS AS WE DONT HAVE ANY SET PLAYS, I DONT SEE THEM, I WATCHED WEST VIRGINA GAME TODAY, NOW BOB HUGGINS SAY WHAT U MAY ABOUT HIM CAN DRAW UP SOME PLAYS.JMO MARK FEW RUNS A VERY GOOD OFFENSE, ALOT OF SCREENING AND ROLLING, MOTION ALL THE TIME NO STANDING AROUND, RUPP USED TO RUM WHAT I CALL THE 5 MAN WEAVE, ITS REALLY SCREENING AND ROLLING, TOO, A VERY GOOD OFFENSE. SCREEENING AND ROLLING TO THE BASKET, CONSTANT MOVEMENT SOMEONE WILL GET OPEN.
[ 01-24-2015, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: Green-Bean ]
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I was Born A Wildcat!
That's All I'll Ever Be!
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 01-24-2015 10:41 PM
He is not even running the dribble drive right now!!(in fact hasnt run it much since arriving at UK)
He is running more of a motion offense which is screening and spacing and the pick and roll and the pick and pop.
Seriously 19-0 and never have I heard so many complaints about the coach and his coaching skills (or lack of them). Sorta sad to say the least.
A debate on what type of offense he is running etc is great but to say he doesn't know x's and o's is dumbfounding to me!
Are you saying 19-0 is based on talent alone and not coaching?
[ 01-24-2015, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
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ukcatfannfl
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Green-Bean
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Member # 13551
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posted 01-24-2015 11:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ukcatfannfl:
He is not even running the dribble drive right now!!(in fact hasnt run it much since arriving at UK)
He is running more of a motion offense which is screening and spacing and the pick and roll and the pick and pop.
Seriously 19-0 and never have I heard so many complaints about the coach and his coaching skills (or lack of them). Sorta sad to say the least.
A debate on what type of offense he is running etc is great but to say he doesn't know x's and o's is dumbfounding to me!
Are you saying 19-0 is based on talent alone and not coaching?
YEA THATS PRETTY MUCH WHAT IM SAYING, I DONT SEE MANY X AND O PLAYS AT ALL I SEEN 3 TODAY ON OUT OF BOUNDS PLAYS BY MARTIN, HEY NOT SAYING CAL IS NOT A GREAT X AND O COACH IS NOT ALL THAT BAD, I GUESS, HEY HE HAS 9 MICKEY D'S ALOT TO WORK WITH, YEAH I KNOW U ARE A COACH I USED TO BE, NEVER HAD THIS MUCH TALENT THOUGH BUT I WAS AT HIGH SCHOOL, AND JUNIOR HIGH LEVEL. I JUST DONT SEE ANY SET PLAYS. EVERYONE SEES DIFFERENT.
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I was Born A Wildcat!
That's All I'll Ever Be!
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m hamilton
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Member # 127
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posted 01-25-2015 12:13 AM
I'm not going to pick this team apart right now. From the managers right up to the head coach himself. they are working towards greatness right now! 19-0 the 3rd best start in UK history. We've beaten some pretty solid teams on our way to this point too! We need to just hang on and enjoy the ride!
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The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
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catmandoo
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posted 01-25-2015 12:19 AM
ukman, you were right, plenty of D today but still got to score more.
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catmandoo
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posted 01-25-2015 12:20 AM
19-0 has a good sound to it.
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m hamilton
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Member # 127
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posted 01-25-2015 12:35 AM
21 games to a perfect season. Still a lot of games left!
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The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
Posts: 123991 | From: vevay, IN USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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m hamilton
Player
Member # 127
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posted 01-25-2015 12:36 AM
Don't confuse what I said up above to say I think we can win it all and go undefeated. I'm just very hopeful at this point!
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The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
Posts: 123991 | From: vevay, IN USA | Registered: Sep 1999
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ukman
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posted 01-25-2015 07:38 AM
I am not bashing Cal, just wishing we would move more on offense. If we want a championship our offense is going to have to move. Again, I am thrilled with 19-0, but I am also looking at the whole picture. Defense is some of the best ever seen, I am just wanting the offense to be excellent, not best ever, just excellent. And it should be with all of this talent. I am sure it will improve as we go, like it did last year.
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Green-Bean
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Member # 13551
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posted 01-25-2015 08:15 AM
UKMAN SOME KNOW WHAT U ARE TALKING ABOUT, YOU ARE A VERY ASTUTE POSTER ON BASKETBALL, I KNOW WHAT U ARE TALKING ABOUT. BUT A COACH HAS TO HAVE OFFENSIVE SCHEMES TO HAVE A GOOD OFFENSE, THEY MAKE BOOKS WITH PLAYS IN THEM. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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I was Born A Wildcat!
That's All I'll Ever Be!
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catmandoo
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posted 01-25-2015 09:55 AM
We all have different opinions and their isn't a poster on here that doesn't want the best for the Cats. It's "very" important to remember that we do have the right to disagree with "any" post but not the right to attack the poster. We have great mods which is what makes TCD so special and why we have so "very" few problems.
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 01-25-2015 11:04 AM
green bean don't understand what you are talking about when you talk about "offensive schemes". What I described above are exactly that. All college ball these days are screening, picking and spacing. The days of offense as seen on "Hoosiers" are over. The teams are too skilled and movement against either a man to man or zone are keys to beating either.
On a zone against us I will say we could do a better job of playing more in/out than we do and perhaps overload one side with one big high and one big more toward the short corner.
Just my take on what I see - could be wrong on all of it however...
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ukcatfannfl
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rupps runt65
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posted 01-25-2015 11:10 AM
I agree with all said on here and I believe th that Booker is our best player...
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catmandoo
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Member # 1284
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posted 01-25-2015 11:18 AM
I knew Booker was going to be pretty good but got to admit he far exceeds his abilities than what I thought. We can see by the numbers how good he can play on the offensive side of the ball but his defense has been surprising too. I know this is selfish but sure would like for him to stay so we could see that sweet stroke for another year.
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 01-25-2015 11:53 AM
GB FYI there are schemes that can be run against a man to man such as a "flex" which is two guard front with 2 wings and 1 big on the block. The 1guard brings ball up one side and as he is doing that the opposite wing will rotate to ball side receiving a screen from the block big. If the ball side wing can get the ball to the post he does so if not then post will rotate and screen for the guard who will then pick and roll. If nothing there then ball is rotated to weak side and opposite wing comes thru to ball side block. If a team has some patience it will work.
There are also set stuff such as (we call it Ky) where guard brings ball up to one side and then reverses it to other guard and he cuts thru opposite side replacing wing who has rotated up to the guard area as the original guard cuts thru to ball side. And if nothing there then keep doing it. Works great at the H.S. level and is similar to the dribble drive.
Anyway H.s. doesnt have the athletes that college does so easier to run "set" stuff.
Even OOB plays are difficult to run at the college level due to how good they are. At the H.S. level we have them for zone and man to man and generally effective.
Coach Cal is only interested in getting the ball in and with his bigs generally it is never a problem.
GB you are a great poster and know more about basketball than I do - what I post are my opinions and I'm sure most posters know can describe the same thing.
I just like the debate on different x and o's and hopefully get a conversation going on that aspect of the game..
(everything I post is strictly IMO only)
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ukcatfannfl
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Green-Bean
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posted 01-25-2015 12:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ukcatfannfl:
GB FYI there are schemes that can be run against a man to man such as a "flex" which is two guard front with 2 wings and 1 big on the block. The 1guard brings ball up one side and as he is doing that the opposite wing will rotate to ball side receiving a screen from the block big. If the ball side wing can get the ball to the post he does so if not then post will rotate and screen for the guard who will then pick and roll. If nothing there then ball is rotated to weak side and opposite wing comes thru to ball side block. If a team has some patience it will work.
There are also set stuff such as (we call it Ky) where guard brings ball up to one side and then reverses it to other guard and he cuts thru opposite side replacing wing who has rotated up to the guard area as the original guard cuts thru to ball side. And if nothing there then keep doing it. Works great at the H.S. level and is similar to the dribble drive.
Anyway H.s. doesnt have the athletes that college does so easier to run "set" stuff.
Even OOB plays are difficult to run at the college level due to how good they are. At the H.S. level we have them for zone and man to man and generally effective.
Coach Cal is only interested in getting the ball in and with his bigs generally it is never a problem.
GB you are a great poster and know more about basketball than I do - what I post are my opinions and I'm sure most posters know can describe the same thing.
I just like the debate on different x and o's and hopefully get a conversation going on that aspect of the game..
(everything I post is strictly IMO only)
ITS NOT A MATTER OF WHO KNOWS WHAT, OR THE MOST I KNOW NOTHING, BUT I DO KNOW WHAT A FLEX IS AND TANDOM OFFENSES, ETC, U ARE A COACH BUT NOT ALL ARE GOING TO AGREE WITH YOU, YES TEAMS RUN SET PLAYS, GONZAGA DOES, YES ALOT OF IT IS PICK AND ROLL, AND MOTION, AND WHAT RUPP USED TO CALL THE WEAVE WELL IVE SEEN AND DONE EVERYTHING U ARE SAYING, BUT SEE IMO U NEED TO TELL CAL THIS CAUSE HE DONT DO ANY OF IT. MOST TEAMS THESE DAYS RUN TOO MANY ISSOS. I PREFER THE GOOD OL PICK AND ROLL, AND THE OL FASHION BACK CUT. WELL ITS JUST MY OPINION ANYWAY, AND THAT WONT GET U NOTHING.
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I was Born A Wildcat!
That's All I'll Ever Be!
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Green-Bean
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posted 01-25-2015 01:04 PM
OH BY THE WAY UKCATFANINFL, I REALLY RESPECT YOUR KNOWLEDGE, AND APPRECIATE UR BASKETBALL KNOWLEDGE. U ARE A GREAT POSTER SO I GUESS WE WILL JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE, ON CALS COACHING, IM GLAD WE HAVE CAL, AND HOPE HE STAYS AROUND A LONG TIME, WE JUST ALL SEE THE GAME DIFFERENT I GUESS. REALLY WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT, BASKETBALL IS A SIMPLE GAME, AND EXECUTION OF THE FUNDEMENTALS OF THE GAME WINS MOST OF THE TIME. ITS A GAME I LOVE DEARLY, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT SAYS KENTUCKY ACROSS THE FRONT, THATS ONE THANG NO ONE LOVES BETTER THAN ME, IS KENTUCKY BASKETBALL. AND AT THE END OF THE DAY THATS WHAT WE ALL LOVE HERE ON THIS GREAT BOARD. I REST MY CASE!!
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I was Born A Wildcat!
That's All I'll Ever Be!
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 01-25-2015 02:19 PM
GB said "WE ALL LOVE HERE ON THIS GREAT BOARD. I REST MY CASE!!"
ty gb great ending quote!
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ukcatfannfl
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m hamilton
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Member # 127
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posted 01-25-2015 03:12 PM
I constantly question some of our movements too, but since we're still winning I usually just continue to keep my tongue. we're still currently scoring more points than our opponents and that equals W's!
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The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
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Bama Cat
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posted 01-25-2015 03:25 PM
These guys were the man on their high school team and if you watch clips of the top high school kids I don't see much in the way of plays. Most of them just give them the ball and they take it to the hoop or shoot it, or in a few cases when they don't have any avenue to shoot they may pass it. On the UK team you see a lot of the same thing especially from the Harrisons. They go until they are stopped and then look for a team mate. But that is the DDO. I agree that we should stay in motion instead of standing around and passing the ball around the outside. But that is what seems to come up every year and that is playing the opponents type of game, halfcourt slow down. We just don't play well in that type of offense. We have to keep our pace up to play well. Another way to put it is we are playing to the level of our opponent. If they are alower level opponent we slow it down and score fewer points and the game is closer. When we play a good team the pace is usually fast and we play well and score a lot more.
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m hamilton
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Member # 127
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posted 01-25-2015 03:39 PM
Offensive schemes are generally set up to keep players form just standing around. Our guys do seem to move. Our big guys are continually moving to try to get the open pass into the lower block. The assists stat tells me that our players are continuing to look for one another for a BETTER open shot!
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The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
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