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Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-02-2020, 03:19 PM:
It appears to me the whole country should open up expect maybe NYC and probably the area in New Jersey closes to NYC. One death is too many but dumping our economy in a never ending abyss, is frightening.
Govts of Maine, Michigan and California have turned into dictators imv!
This crisis has turned political big time!
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-us-maps-and-cases
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-02-2020, 03:40 PM:
as a follow up to my previous.
State Control - Why people are protesting at the state level.
When the State tells you it's safe to go to Home Depot to buy a sponge but dangerous to go and buy a flower, it's not about your health.
When the State shuts down millions of private businesses but doesn’t lay off a single government employee, it's not about your health.
When the State bans dentists because its unsafe, but deems abortion visit is safe, it's not about your health.
When the State prevents you from buying cucumber seeds because it's dangerous, but allows in person lottery ticket sales, it's not about your health.
When the State tells you it's dangerous to go golf alone, fish alone or be in a motor boat alone, but the Governor can get his stage make up done, and hair done for 5 TV appearances a week, it's not about your health.
When the state puts you IN a jail cell you for walking in a park with your child because it’s too dangerous but lets criminals OUT of jail cells for their health- It’s not about YOUR health!
When the state tells you it’s too dangerous to get treated by a doctor of chiropractic or physical therapy treatments yet deems a liquor store essential- It’s not about your health!
When the State lets you go to the grocery store or hardware store but is demanding mail-in voting, ITS NOT ABOUT YOUR HEALTH.
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-02-2020, 03:46 PM:
Sooooooo true ukc
Colorado has just joined a pact with other states over covid19 but says it is science based and not political based !!! Hmmm anytime anyone says it isn't about the money it is about the money !!!
These states don't want to work with the Federal Govt because they each know what is best for their state but then join a pact with Democratic states … no Rep states involved … it's political !!!
The states involved in the Western Alliance State Pact are Colorado, Oregon, Nevada, Washington and California.
MEL
[ 05-02-2020, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: MEL ]
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-02-2020, 04:19 PM:
MM … I don't know exactly what we should be doing but to say it is ok to get an abortion and get alcohol but can't go to the dentist or a chiropractor is totally insane IMHO !!! People don't have to have alcohol but some sure do need chiropractic work done on their bodies. I work for a store that sells guns and they are doing very well in that department but why does everyone need a gun or in most cases at our store more guns now rather than other times ??? Alcohol and guns along with other things don't belong together.
MM did you check out the you tube link I mentioned in another topic ??? Food for thought.
MEL
Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 05-02-2020, 06:42 PM:
Indiana will allow most businesses to open on Monday, but limit "capacity" to 50% (and 25% in "public spaces".. what the hell does that mean?). So it looks like restaurants can open back up as long as they space customers out.
Bars, nursing homes and gyms will stay closed.
It is a start. I sure hope that people will use common sense, and not go out if you are high-risk or already sick. But, that won't happen...
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-03-2020, 01:12 PM:
Well if something more positive is not done soon, the despair and then suicides' will overtake the deaths in some states. Not opening up our economy is nothing but crazy and political!
The state level better get their act together before it is too late!
As mentioned before, the democrat's see this crisis as their last effort to win in Nov and they will "milk" it for all its worth!
[ 05-03-2020, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-03-2020, 01:24 PM:
I deleted my last post accidentally...if I can remember what I said I'll re-post!
If I can't remember, it was probably a lie. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-03-2020, 01:58 PM:
Ed:
quote:
The state level better get their act together before it is too late!
It's already too late on the state level...what else can they do?
Maybe we could ask Jared? He has this shadow covid-response team, who's activities are secret, btw.
Can anybody reasonably explain to me why Son-In-Law is even involved in this?
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-03-2020, 02:22 PM:
"it's already too late on the state level...what else can they do"
For one - they could open up the state and attempt to get their economy back up and running!
For two - they could stop making this a political event like Maine, Mich, Calif and others are doing!
FEMA is the lead on the national response along with the Military and others. Perhaps you could explain what you know on the son-in-law participation?
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-03-2020, 02:27 PM:
I did find this on Kushner -his logistical role
something wrong with that?
The role: Politico reports that over the last two-plus weeks, Kushner "has emerged as perhaps the most pivotal figure in the national fight against the fast-growing pandemic." If VP Mike Pence is leading an "all-of-government" task force, Kushner is leading more of an "all-of-private-sector" outfit. Among other things, Kushner's team is "working alongside government officials from FEMA, HHS, and USAID to solve a range of logistical and technical challenges" and "has stepped in to coordinate decision-making at agencies including the Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services," per Politico.
Nothing SECRET about that as many articles on it!
[ 05-03-2020, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 05-03-2020, 02:48 PM:
I thought I heard that none of the states that are easing restrictions have met the guidelines set by the federal government to start scaling back. Am I wrong about this?
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-03-2020, 03:52 PM:
Ed:
quote:
I did find this on Kushner -his logistical role
something wrong with that?
The role: Politico reports that over the last two-plus weeks, Kushner "has emerged as perhaps the most pivotal figure in the national fight against the fast-growing pandemic." If VP Mike Pence is leading an "all-of-government" task force, Kushner is leading more of an "all-of-private-sector" outfit. Among other things, Kushner's team is "working alongside government officials from FEMA, HHS, and USAID to solve a range of logistical and technical challenges" and "has stepped in to coordinate decision-making at agencies including the Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services," per Politico.
And his qualifications dealing with deadly pandemics are?
quote:
I thought I heard that none of the states that are easing restrictions have met the guidelines set by the federal government to start scaling back. Am I wrong about this?
That is correct!....not a single one!
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-03-2020, 04:01 PM:
Business man - well know person - ear of the President - able to get all facets of responses fm people on same page - we are talking logistics here not science!
Unfortunately MM it doesn't appear that you can see anything but "bad" in anything or anyone associated with this administration. Perhaps it clouds your judgement on all things Trump?
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 05-03-2020, 04:18 PM:
Ukcatfan, but aren’t the states,Republican and Democrat Governor’s, going against what the president wants?
[ 05-03-2020, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-03-2020, 04:20 PM:
some are and some aren't handy nothing uniform
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-03-2020, 04:21 PM:
Ed:
quote:
Unfortunately MM it doesn't appear that you can see anything but "bad" in anything or anyone associated with this administration. Perhaps it clouds your judgement on all things Trump?
I don't trust Trump any more than I would a rattlesnake...
Ed:
quote:
some are and some aren't handy nothing uniform
Do you know which states are and which states aren't going against Trump?
[ 05-04-2020, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 05-03-2020, 04:24 PM:
I just edited my post to say both Democratic and Republican governors are doing this. At least it seems that way too me. .You don’t think he could be saying one thing but doing another do you?
Of course not, I just answered my own question. That would be playing politics and we all know Trump isn’t a politician, he’s a businessman.
Posted by m hamilton (Member # 127) on 05-03-2020, 05:20 PM:
Can someone explain to me why, when I just got through reading the CDC website, they are saying that the number of deaths in our country due to Corona have been drastically multiplied?
According to their numbers as of 4 pm this afternoon there were around 37,000 people who have actually died from Covid-19.
It gives a state by state total where most of them in our area are drastically lower than the numbers being posted on the national news!
www.CDC.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/
[ 05-03-2020, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: m hamilton ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-03-2020, 08:29 PM:
Tip:
quote:
It is a start. I sure hope that people will use common sense, and not go out if you are high-risk or already sick. But, that won't happen...
The biggest risk is if there is a “rebound” breakout that causes another lockdown...people won’t know what to do next! Who do you trust after that?
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-03-2020, 08:45 PM:
mh:
quote:
According to their numbers as of 4 pm this afternoon there were around 37,000 people who have actually died from Covid-19
There is a lag time between when the death occurs and when the death is reported to the CDC...as much as two weeks. Thus, CDC reporting is not updated.
[ 05-03-2020, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-03-2020, 11:01 PM:
M ham the link that I posted in my 1st post gives u a link to click and it supposed to update every 15 mins..
state by state cases and deaths
[ 05-03-2020, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-05-2020, 01:22 PM:
Just heard Trump say that Dr Fauci could not testify in the HoR but could in the Senate because Democrats wanted people to die to win an election.
What a pathetic thing to say. But when it comes to blaming....nothing is too pathetic for Trump!
Liberate Fauci! Liberate the Truth!
[ 05-05-2020, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by clydeh (Member # 7) on 05-05-2020, 01:45 PM:
Somewhere, sometime, on this board I posted my concern about the HYPE regarding covid-19. I suspect (but don't know) that the number of monthly deaths in this country is not much more than last year or the year before.
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-05-2020, 02:09 PM:
As a follow up - the website that I posted in the 1st thread of this website does update very quickly. Cases and deaths figures are current whenever you log on it..
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-05-2020, 02:38 PM:
Dr Clyde:
quote:
that the number of monthly deaths in this country is not much more than last year or the year befor
I’m not sure about what you’re saying?
Posted by clydeh (Member # 7) on 05-05-2020, 03:23 PM:
M.M.
I haven't checked on any reliable death data for the last few years, but many people die every day in this country.
I wonder if some of the news is being promoted by the Republicans concerning how few deaths we are having and by the Democrats about how many deaths we are having. Both sides need to be blaming and praising someone.
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 05-05-2020, 03:27 PM:
I saw today where the White House is going to wind down the coronavirus task force within the next month. I believe they have done an ok job or at least as well as can be expected.
The fear of a shortage of ventilators, hospitals being overwhelmed etc did not happen. I believe this is the result of this task force and the President.
Food for thought. Over 3,280 deaths occur every day from car accidents in this country. We have rules and regulations associated with driving a car but deaths still occur. I’m thinking it’s time to open things up a bit.
[ 05-05-2020, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-05-2020, 04:07 PM:
Common Flu
and these figures are with a flu vaccine!
Seasonal flu kills 291,000 to 646,000 people worldwide each year, according to a new estimate that's higher than the previous one of 250,000 to 500,000 deaths a year.
The new figures from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other groups were published Dec. 13 in The Lancet medical journal.
The updated numbers, which do not include deaths during flu pandemics, are based on more recent data from a larger and more diverse group of countries than the previous estimate, the CDC said.
The data came from 33 countries that have 57 percent of the world's population and had seasonal flu numbers for a minimum of four years between 1999 and 2015. That information was used to create an estimate of flu-related respiratory deaths in 185 countries worldwide.
The study found that the risk of flu-related death was highest in the poorest regions of the world and among older adults.
"These findings remind us of the seriousness of flu and that flu prevention should really be a global priority," study co-author Dr. Joe Bresee, associate director for global health in CDC's Influenza Division, said in a CDC news release.
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-05-2020, 04:09 PM:
Common Flu deaths in the U.S. 2019
CDC: 80,000 people died of flu last winter in U.S., highest death toll in 40 years
with a vaccine
More than this latest pandemic (so far)
This has become a Political event with certain states begging for bail outs.
Our Economy is suffering and in fact and to make it worse -
Nancy Pelosi has already said that she is getting together agenda items ready to include in the next bail out bill...
[ 05-05-2020, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
Posted by clydeh (Member # 7) on 05-05-2020, 05:02 PM:
ukcatfannfl
Somewhere on this board a few weeks ago I mentioned if the "treatment was worse than the disease".
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-05-2020, 05:08 PM:
“Food for thought. Over 3,280 deaths occur every day from car accidents in this country. We have rules and regulations associated with driving a car but deaths still occur. I’m thinking it’s time to open things up a bit”
How often does 70, 000 Americans die in 3 months with plenty more to come?
quote:
The fear of a shortage of ventilators, hospitals being overwhelmed etc did not happen. I believe this is the result of this task force and the President.
This fear was based on CDC models and projections. It did not happen because of the measures the states took. I honestly don’t know what Trump has done, but I’m willing to listen.
quote:
I saw today where the White House is going to wind down the coronavirus task force within the next month. I believe they have done an ok job or at least as well as can be expected.
Might as well...Trump has basically sequestered them anyway.
Correction: Make that 70,000 deaths in 2 months...first confirmed death was March 1st.
hc,
I know we have to do something about the economy...we have to! I just think the way it is being done will turn a disaster into a nightmare.
[ 05-05-2020, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-05-2020, 05:16 PM:
"This fear was based on CDC models and projections. It did happen because of the measures the states took. I honestly don’t know what Trump has done, but I’m willing to listen.
no you aren't!!
This statement by you is all anyone needs to know you vis - vis Trump.
"I don't trust Trump any more than I would a rattlesnake..."
"
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-05-2020, 05:19 PM:
quote:
The fear of a shortage of ventilators, hospitals being overwhelmed etc did not happen. I believe this is the result of this task force and the President.
This fear was based on CDC models and projections. It did happen because of the measures the states took. I honestly don’t know what Trump has done, but I’m willing to listen.
-------------------------------
So I guess the federal government didn't send any ventilators or supplies to any states (then why did some of the governors say thank you to him for helping them ???) and the states stopped all travel from China ??? The Dems first said President Trump was a racist for banning travel from China then weeks later said he didn't do it soon enough !!! Enough said … the Dems ***** about everything President Trump does not matter what it is !!! If he said the sky is blue they would ***** that he didn't say the right shade of blue.
MEL
[ 05-05-2020, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: MEL ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-05-2020, 05:59 PM:
MEL:
quote:
So I guess the federal government didn't send any ventilators or supplies to any states (then why did some of the governors say thank you to him for helping them ???)
They did indeed, but only after the governors begged, pleaded, and eventually did what they had to do...get down on their knees...and be, you know, "appreciative"!
quote:
The Dems first said President Trump was a racist for banning travel from China then weeks later said he didn't do it soon enough !!! Enough said
True enough. So, after that?
quote:
the Dems ***** about everything President Trump does not matter what it is !!! If he said the sky is blue they would ***** that he didn't say the right shade of blue.
Not all Democrats feel that way, MEL...as I'm sure that all Republicans don't feel the exact opposite.
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 05-05-2020, 06:01 PM:
quote:
Correction: Make that 70,000 deaths in 2 months...first confirmed death was March 1st.
M&M, if both my math and statement are correct about the number of death’s by car accidents, over 180, 000 people died in automobile accidents in that same time period.
We can’t stop driving and we simply cannot continue to keep the economy shut down, at least IMO. I believe the economy should start reopening with rules and regulations in place. A small dose of common sense would also be helpful.
Because of age and other existing health conditions, my wife and I will, in all probability, continue to shelter in place. At least for the foreseeable future. IMO, that doesn’t mean that everyone else should do so.
We will just have to disagree on this.
By the way, I seriously doubt you dislike or distrust Donald Trump any more than I do.
[ 05-05-2020, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-05-2020, 06:06 PM:
Ed:
quote:
CDC: 80,000 people died of flu last winter in U.S., highest death toll in 40 years
Covid ain't done yet...just getting started, imo.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-05-2020, 06:29 PM:
Ed:
quote:
"This fear was based on CDC models and projections. It did happen because of the measures the states took. I honestly don’t know what Trump has done, but I’m willing to listen.
no you aren't!!
This statement by you is all anyone needs to know you vis - vis Trump.
"I don't trust Trump any more than I would a rattlesnake..."
Me:
quote:
"I don't trust Trump any more than I would a rattlesnake..."
That's how I feel, Ed...what can I say?
quote:
I’m willing to listen.
If I didn't want to listen I wouldn't post on this board...that don't mean I have to agree with what I'm hearing.
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 05-05-2020, 06:45 PM:
Everybody, my bad. Only 90 people a day die in the U S. Number I was quoting was world wide. Doesn’t change my mind about reopening. Damn good thing no one pays attention to my posts.
My know it all wife told me that can’t be correct.😊
[ 05-05-2020, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-05-2020, 07:13 PM:
Plus hc, car recks ain't catching!
Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 05-05-2020, 07:20 PM:
Stupidity must be.
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-05-2020, 07:43 PM:
MM … car recks may not be catching but there are lots of people that die with no fault of their own … not to mention the thousands that spend days and weeks in the hospital or paralyzed from them.
80,000 people died of the flu in 2018 with vaccines and no one said a word other than those that were closely affected to those that died. We have to get our economy back on track.
Tobacco kills almost 500,000 every year in the US and we haven't outlawed it … second hand smoke kills over 41,000 a year yet it isn't a big deal.
What I am saying is people die from all kinds of things that we don't worry about unless it is us or someone close.
Starting in 1975 abortions killed over 1 million every year till 2009 when it went down to "ONLY"
a little less than 900,000. The lowest deaths do to abortion reported since then has been 327,000 in 2018 and I am sure the morning after pill has been a major reason for the drastic number of deaths being reported.
The democratic platform is all for this murdering of innocent children (under the thought process of it is the mothers decision). It is legal to kill a child but not an American Eagle. That tells me all I need to know about the democratic party as a whole !!!
MEL
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-05-2020, 08:01 PM:
Don't forget Mel the democrats want to eliminate cows since their farts cause climate problems.
How anyone with a straight face can say they support the "new" democratic party is beyond crazy!
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-05-2020, 08:09 PM:
Oh yeah ukc … how could I forget that one !!!
MEL
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-05-2020, 08:14 PM:
I ‘m inclined to agree, Norm.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-05-2020, 09:00 PM:
Ed:
quote:
Don't forget Mel the democrats want to eliminate cows since their farts cause climate problems.
Democrats can relax...Covid is here.
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-05-2020, 09:04 PM:
"Democrats can relax...Covid is here."
as a political tool or just to take the cow farts away as a platform?
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-05-2020, 09:09 PM:
??
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-05-2020, 09:11 PM:
Don't forget Mel the democrats want to eliminate cows since their farts cause climate problems.
________________________________________________
"Democrats can relax...Covid is here."
and that reply makes sense??
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-06-2020, 05:52 PM:
Just talked to a colleague of mine whose son is a doctor and he told me his son told him that many of the covid19 deaths aren't checked and that hospitals are getting extra money for covid19 deaths which we all know if that is true then the covid19 totals are not accurate. I don't know this for a fact just relaying what was told to me from a person whose son is a doctor.
MEL
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-07-2020, 01:11 PM:
Ruh-Roh Rorge! Trump personal valet test positive for Covid...not good!
MEL, If I could place a bet on it I would bet my house that the death totals are much higher than are being reported.
[ 05-07-2020, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-07-2020, 05:46 PM:
Guys,
I don't know if we are beyond the point of no return, but I'm scared sh*tless to be honest. If we don't come up with a solution pretty soon we're screwed.
We're on the verge of becoming the poorest, sickest, and most vulnerable America in my lifetime. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Somebody needs to change that...while there's still time, maybe.
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-07-2020, 05:55 PM:
So sorry to hear that MM !!!
I am just the opposite … I take everyday as just another wonderful day to be alive. I don't worry about things I can't control. I am a Christian and honestly believe God is in control !!!
So hope you can get through this mess !!!
MEL
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-07-2020, 06:14 PM:
MEL:
quote:
I am just the opposite … I take everyday as just another wonderful day to be alive. I don't worry about things I can't control. I am a Christian and honestly believe God is in control !!!
Seems like you good to go dude. You do know the beaches, bars, restaurants, gyms, tat parlors, and let's not forget, churches, are open for business...good luck...have fun!
quote:
So hope you can get through this mess !!!
Thanks MEL, dealing with reality can get tough at times.
Edit:
Mel, l’m not downplaying or being dismissive of your life choices, not at all...just wanted you to know that.
[ 05-08-2020, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 05-07-2020, 06:44 PM:
Churches are NOT open here in western KY. At least none that I know of. The Catholic bishop of the diocese of Owensboro has said we "might" reopen in mid May, while practicing social distancing. We usually have about 50 people at our Sunday Masses, and there is no way we can get that many in our little church six feet apart.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-07-2020, 06:52 PM:
Norm,
Your bishop is a person of good faith and good sense...be thankful for him.
I don't necessarily believe that science and religion have to disagree...the difference is technology.
[ 05-07-2020, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 05-07-2020, 07:44 PM:
M&M, we’ll be fine. Just be sure and have a couple of vodkas and Clorox daily.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-07-2020, 07:51 PM:
Damn, hc, I wish you'd said sum'n...I thought burbon wuz the mixer! No damn wunder it taste like schit!
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-08-2020, 09:26 AM:
hc:
quote:
M&M, we’ll be fine.
We lost 20.5 million jobs last month..nothing like it, ever!
33 million unemployed and counting
14.7% unemployment and rising..Great Depression level.
75,000 deaths and counting...projected by some models to double by June 1.
I don’t why I’m so pessimistic.
Posted by clydeh (Member # 7) on 05-08-2020, 10:01 AM:
Since I was in college in 1957-1961, the flu has come through this country many times and caused considerable problems and deaths. However, I don't recall so much HYPE and the country being almost shut down because of the flu. Even before the flu vaccine, we continued our usual lives unless we or our family members got the flu. I'm not blaming anyone, but I think that the "treatment was worse than the disease", because of the damage that has been done to the economy and to individuals who do not have jobs and are struggling financially.
I'm an old man and am on S.S. so I have not been directly affected financially.
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-08-2020, 12:27 PM:
clyedh … I think you are spot on. There has been so much hype and I hope it isn't political but I don't bet against it. There are so many things pointing to or at the very least suggesting that it could be. A doctor told his son that every covid19 case gave that hospital $1300 dollars more because it was covid19... that in it's self points to dishonest people grabbing the money. Not saying every hospital out there is doing that but I am suggesting that there are some and depending on how many that could cause the death rate to skyrocket. Besides most and of course not all covid19 deaths have an underlying condition.
This disease is deadly no doubt but I believe it is pushed that way by fear. This is all my on humble opinion though. Those with underlying conditions need to take care of themselves how they see fit but we "HAVE" to get the economy going again no matter what !!!
Again just my humble opinion... everyone take care of yourselves the best way you see fit. I am going back to work as soon as they will let me.
MEL
[ 05-08-2020, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: MEL ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-08-2020, 12:56 PM:
Member of VP Pence staff test positive for Covid...2nd case in 2 days at WH!
Posted by m hamilton (Member # 127) on 05-09-2020, 08:22 AM:
I haven't stopped working and have been actually getting overtime every week this year so far!
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 05-09-2020, 10:08 AM:
I believe we absolutely have to start opening the country up. If that means the President or the Vice-President becomes infected, so be it. If it means I become infected, so be it. God forbid, if it means family or friends contacting it, so be it.
IMO, to do otherwise will destroy our country as we know it. That sounds a little dramatic but I believe it to be true.
However, in the interest or public safety, I feel all barbershops and salons should be permanently closed. The government should mandate all citizens, both male and female, shave their head.
[ 05-09-2020, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 05-09-2020, 11:11 AM:
Hamilton County, Ohio (Cincinnati), had more had more gun-related homicide deaths in April than Covid deaths. You just gotta love Cincinnati.
MM, i understand your fear. I have just a tiny bit of worry, but i totally understand anyone who fears this virus. I definitely don't want to get it, but I kind of think if I do i would survive. I also believe a vaccine will be found, or at least a way to really help battle the disease if you get it.
I'm a glass-half-full kind of guy.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-09-2020, 11:28 AM:
hc;
quote:
I believe we absolutely have to start opening the country up. If that means the President or the Vice-President becomes infected, so be it. If it means I become infected, so be it. God forbid, if it means family or friends contacting it, so be it.
Opening up is not the problem, it's how you open up. Trump could order every business, school, church, sports team, etc. to open tomorrow, but if consumers don't come out it won't matter...our economy is 70% consumer based.
People are afraid hc, and when they see the WH infected, supposedly the most protected place on the planet, that fear is magnified.
Testing and tracing must, I mean, must improve dramatically and quickly for us to have a chance for any kind of sustainable recovery.
The WH has recognized this since they have gone from weekly test to daily test.
We, the people, deserve the same assurances.
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-09-2020, 01:07 PM:
MM … if you want those assurances and aren't getting them blame your mayor and governor and go after and start demanding them. They are the ones that are charged with keeping you and your community and state safe (Rep or Dem).
MEL
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-09-2020, 01:39 PM:
MEL:
quote:
MM … if you want those assurances and aren't getting them blame your mayor and governor and go after and start demanding them. They are the ones that are charged with keeping you and your community and state safe (Rep or Dem).
MEL
Since the federal government can't even keep the President and VP safe, I think that is an excellent idea.
[ 05-09-2020, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-09-2020, 02:10 PM:
lol
MEL
Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 05-09-2020, 02:32 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by MountainMafia:
Opening up is not the problem, it's how you open up. Trump could order every business, school, church, sports team, etc. to open tomorrow, but if consumers don't come out it won't matter...our economy is 70% consumer based.
MM, I obviously can't speak for what it's like in your area, but I can tell you this - it's business as usual in Northern Ky. When things are opened back up, consumers will be out just like before the virus. I just ran out to pick up lunch and anything that was open was doing just fine. I would bet there are many more people NOT afraid of the virus than there are that are afraid. As our stores are opened back up, everything will be very close to back to normal.
This is America - the country where people stand in a line for six hours to pay $900 for a cell phone to replace the perfectly fine cell phone they already own. Trust me, consumers will be back in full force.
[ 05-09-2020, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: PaulCat ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-09-2020, 03:17 PM:
With the exception of a few people wearing mask, shortages here and there and less traffic, it's about the same down here, PC. And, as you say, more and more people will be coming out and doing as restrictions are relaxed.
Let's wait and make sure this is not a "false positive". Early June will tell us the consequences of our decisions today.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-09-2020, 03:42 PM:
Hey MEL!
Here's a thought to sleep on:
Should Trump and Pence become incapacitated...guess who becomes POTUS?
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-09-2020, 04:13 PM:
The b**** from hell !!!
She wouldn't be the President she would be the acting President (no one in their right mind would vote for her to be President).
MEL
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-09-2020, 04:27 PM:
MEL:
quote:
She wouldn't be the President she would be the acting President
Don't matta...she be Pres til she ain't, no?
[ 05-09-2020, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-09-2020, 04:49 PM:
And I am guessing you would want that ???
Talk about going to hell in a hand basket overnight !!!
MEL
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-09-2020, 06:27 PM:
LOL! Nah, Mel it ain’t going to happen! Relax! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-10-2020, 07:01 AM:
PC:
quote:
This is America - the country where people stand in a line for six hours to pay $900 for a cell phone to replace the perfectly fine cell phone they already own. Trust me, consumers will be back in full force.
That's what scares me, PC....Covid is still here, it's the one constant in all this. It is laying in wait for the slightest opening.
Infections are still INCREASING virtually everywhere.
Look what is happening in S. Korea, arguably the gold standard for handling the pandemic.
They started lifting restrictions and then BOOM!...an outbreak at a nightclub. One SK official said just a couple stupid people is all it takes to endanger everyone (as you pointed out, we have a lot of stupid people)...and SK is a country that has a pretty good grip on this thing..we're nowhere close.
So, the question is not can we open back up, but can we stay open...if not, you tell me.
[ 05-10-2020, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 05-10-2020, 09:35 AM:
M&M, I think your fears are legitimate and shared by rational people.
Where we differ, or may differ, is many of us believe we simply have no real choice, IMO, the economy must open soon or there will be irreversible damage. At least in mine and your lifetimes.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-10-2020, 09:48 AM:
Considering how this country has responded to this crisis to this point, hc, It's hard for me to argue with that.
Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 05-10-2020, 12:05 PM:
I am once again confused. I don't know if you are saying our response has been inadequate, or not. IMO, the president and his team have done a great job in managing it. If you disagree, what do you think should have been handled differently?
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-10-2020, 12:11 PM:
I am with you Norm … hindsight is 20-20 but knowing what we did at the time I think we have done a good job … could have it been better if we had known certain things earlier ??? Sure it could. But I hate these people that come out and say after the fact that they would have done things different, I call BS !!! They didn't start saying what they would have done until more was known about what was going on. It is easy to say now what we should have done … lol. DA's
MEL
Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 05-10-2020, 03:24 PM:
The president, governors, mayors and so on can only do so much. I think for the most part that all the leaders have done a good job. Could some have done better? Sure. But I am still seeing stories where people just refuse to stay at home or away from crowds. I think a very big part of the problem/current situation falls on the citizens and not the political leaders. It's kind of like sports - a coach can only do so much, but at some point the players must perform. Right now, the citizens of this country are shooting 50% from the line. This has got to improve.
Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 05-10-2020, 03:43 PM:
Almost every opinion piece and article written by US media (and especially) foreign media usually toss in the phrase "The US is bereft of leadership" during this crisis.
Bullsh*t. We have had an incredible response given the size of our country and the nature of our government. We long ago traded "efficiency" in for "liberty", a bargain I wholly support.
However, I would NEVER have imagined that our country would almost without a peep of protest give up our constitutional rights as easily and quickly as we did. It boggles my mind that, in the name of "safety", we have essentially opened the door to tyranny. Those who lust for power now have a blueprint on how to achieve total domination.
One last note. The latest data shows that the fatality rate for this virus is about 0.12% -- just a tad more than influenza, which comes in between 0.06% and 0.10%. It is about twice as contagious, but only with similar morbidity. And, since the morbidity is overwhelming tilted towards the older population, it would have been easiest to simply as the wisest segment of the population to self-isolate, letting the rest of the country resume normal activities and develop herd immunity.
NEVER has the response to a pandemic been to isolate the healthy; we always isolate the sick and the vulnerable. Yet, somehow, this virus pulled us into such fear that we shut down our economy and relinquished our liberties.
This will be a threshold event in history.
Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 05-10-2020, 04:05 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Tiptree:
It is about twice as contagious...
Tip, do you think this is due to the fact that there is no annual vaccine? Millions of people get a flu shot every year which is probably why the flu doesn't appear to be as contagious.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-10-2020, 04:07 PM:
Norm:
quote:
I am once again confused. I don't know if you are saying our response has been inadequate, or not. IMO, the president and his team have done a great job in managing it. If you disagree, what do you think should have been handled differently?
My position is the same as always:
Trump has failed the American people during the worse national crisis in my lifetime.
Donald Trump is the most powerful person on planet Earth with unlimited resources...he is President of the wealthiest most powerful nation in history.
Instead of using this power, he immediately set out to blame anybody and everything he could think of for his failures.
"I take no responsibility at all"...then what damn good is he? I mean, please Norm!
Take a look at us, Norm. Compare us to any other country in the world...we are the worst....the worst! That's just damn hard for me to accept.
What would I have done differently? It would be easy for me to point out mistakes and say I wouldn't have done this or that.
What's not so easy is to get some folks to admit that he made any mistakes at all.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-10-2020, 04:10 PM:
MEL:
quote:
I am with you Norm … hindsight is 20-20 but knowing what we did at the time I think we have done a good job
What did we know "at the time" MEL?
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-10-2020, 04:32 PM:
Tip:
quote:
Bullsh*t. We have had an incredible response given the size of our country and the nature of our government.
Tip, by what metrics?
quote:
However, I would NEVER have imagined that our country would almost without a peep of protest give up our constitutional rights as easily and quickly as we did. It boggles my mind that, in the name of "safety", we have essentially opened the door to tyranny. Those who lust for power now have a blueprint on how to achieve total domination.
And who is the tyrant among us, Tip?
quote:
NEVER has the response to a pandemic been to isolate the healthy;
I don't think anybody is "healthy" with this virus...just less likely to die.
Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 05-10-2020, 04:49 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by MountainMafia:
Compare us to any other country in the world...we are the worst....the worst!
MM, please explain how we're the worst. And who are "we" in that statement? Are you talking about the politicians? The citizens?
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-10-2020, 05:03 PM:
If we are the worst country in the world and you don't support "YOUR" President then why do you still live here ??? Oh yeah maybe because if you went to another country you wouldn't get to blast the leaders as you do now because of our freedoms.
This has been way over blown by the liberal led media so far as to put this country in panic mode !!! We have never done before what we did this time with this virus !!! Is it a killer but so is just about everything else we do (alcohol, breathing our air, eat the wrong foods, drink water, drive a car, smoke). It is time to get our nation going forward not cowering behind closed doors !!!
I still believe if they did an autopsy on "EVERY" covid19 death they would find out that there are less covid19 deaths than they are reporting. If it looks like it might be covid19 let's blame it (we get more money as a hospital and no one will ever know). Yes I do believe there are hospital admins doing things like this for the money !!! All of them no way but they are out there.
If you die in this time period it is going to be blamed on covid19 even if it was an underlying issue that might have caused you to die anyway.
If you don't feel comfortable going out in public then stay at home … I go out as often as I need to and never fear for catching it. WE are all gonna die someday and when my time comes it will be when my Lord calls me home !!!
MEL
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-10-2020, 05:03 PM:
PC:
quote:
MM, please explain how we're the worst.
I've got a buzz going right now so I can only think of one so far...we are 5% of the worlds population, we have 33% of the world's infections.
quote:
And who are "we" in that statement? Are you talking about the politicians? The citizens?
I'm talking 'bout you and me, my friend.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-10-2020, 05:15 PM:
You okay, MEL??
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-10-2020, 05:17 PM:
I am great MM !!!
Actually never better !!!
MEL
Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 05-10-2020, 06:31 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by MountainMafia:
I've got a buzz going right now so I can only think of one so far...
What's the cocktail of the day? I got a bottle of Cognac for my 50th and have been drinking that lately. I've developed a fondness for it.
Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 05-10-2020, 06:39 PM:
You keep blaming this on the president, and we keep asking you specifically what he did or failed to do. Still no answer. You say he's the president and he's wealthy. So what? I'm glad to hear that you "have a buzz going." because I can't believe a sober person would say some of the things you say.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-10-2020, 06:40 PM:
Sipping Miller’s Light and a tad of “Natures Finest”
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-10-2020, 07:07 PM:
How about playing golf and holding campaign rallies while downplaying Covid and phrasing China for their good work and transparency....but that was then.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-10-2020, 07:33 PM:
Norm:
quote:
I'm glad to hear that you "have a buzz going." because I can't believe a sober person would say some of the things you say.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-10-2020, 07:51 PM:
PC:
quote:
I got a bottle of Cognac for my 50th and have been drinking that lately. I've developed a fondness for it.
I guess so after 50 bottles.
Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 05-10-2020, 08:30 PM:
IF you compare the US to the EU, we look pretty good. That would be a much better comparison than, say, US to S.Korea, or US to Kazakhstan. The EU has a population and economic power similar to the US.
Compared to China... who knows? First of all, we cannot compare a free, republican government to a dictatorship. Second, I have ZERO confidence in any published data about COVID from China.
Given the constraints we face (fractured and contentious government, intentionally inefficient government processes, a culture of independence and rebellion, and significant urbanization), we did as well as can be expected. We do not have the compliance culture that Asian countries have, we don't have an autocracy to implement immediate and draconian measures, and we don't even have a unified voice out of our federal government (much less the 50 states).
Really, I am not sure of what kind of "magic" you expected from our government.
Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 05-10-2020, 10:22 PM:
I agree. Comparing the United States to other countries is apples to oranges. The US is basically the hub of the planet. I would expect a higher percentage of infections.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-11-2020, 12:25 AM:
Trump has lied and denied from the get go.
He has called Covid everything from a "hoax" to “I’ve always known this is real"
“It’s going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle—it will disappear.”
Globally, the average death rate is 34 people per million residents. In the United States, it’s more than six times higher — 232 per million.
“Anybody that needs a test, gets a test. We—they’re there. They have the tests. And the tests are beautiful.” This wasn't true two months ago and it's not true today.
From the states are on their own to "I have absolute authority"..
Using the task force briefings for self-praise, campaigning and corporate advertising.
Relying on his "gut" while continuing to ignore scientific advice.
A country that showed the world how to defeat polio now promotes quack remedies involving household disinfectants from the presidential podium...Stunning the entire jaw-dropping world.
Creating national guidelines (CDC) for re-opening the economy only to publicly pressure states to violate them.
Encouraging public revolt against his own policies..."Liberate Michigan"..."Liberate Virginia"
Blaming Obama (his default boogeyman) for leaving him "broken test" for Covid, even though Covid didn't exist until Trump's 3rd year in office.
The insertion of his arrogant and incompetent son-in-law as commander in chief of the national medical supply chain?
Purging or quarantining any government official who dare question his genius.
A country that turned out eight combat aircraft every hour at the peak of World War II could not even produce enough 75-cent masks or simple cotton nasal swabs for testing in this pandemic.
And on, and on....
No, Tip, I don't expect "magic", but I sure as hell expect better than this.
Also, Tip, I don’t believe the American way of governance, even with it’s built in flaws, renders us incompetent...it never has before.
[ 05-11-2020, 02:36 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-11-2020, 12:53 AM:
MEL:
quote:
If we are the worst country in the world and you don't support "YOUR" President then why do you still live here
That is about as unpatriotic and anti-America as you can get...Did you still live here when Obama was president or did you support him?
Posted by CatFanInYankeeville (Member # 2025) on 05-11-2020, 09:43 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by MountainMafia:
MEL:
quote:
If we are the worst country in the world and you don't support "YOUR" President then why do you still live here
That is about as unpatriotic and anti-America as you can get...Did you still live here when Obama was president or did you support him?
Maybe I can field this one. I lived here when Obama was the prez, and I fully believe him to be the worst president in my lifetime. I accepted his presidency, voted against him every option I had, and lost. I recognized the USA was still the greatest country on the planet, imho, and even tho Barry was a turd, he couldn't ruin this country...MY country...in 8 years at the helm. Thank God Trump was elected and has been trying to undo some of the crap that Obama did, but it's sure been an uphill battle. Can't get Congress to work with him as they're too busy trying to fraudulently get him removed from office. Still, up until this virus, our economy was booming like never before that I recall. I know my 401k was doing quite well. Unemployment was low, jobs were high, people were getting along better than under the last POTUS. Now the virus comes along, a global pandemic that most agree came from China, and it' sTrumps fault? He blocked travel from China in January, was called a xenophobe and racist. Dems were trying to get people to attend big parades and celebrations even throughout February. If Trump had shut the country down when there were only a handful of cases here, along with zero or very few deaths, then you would have called him a tyrant. He didn't do that, was late to the shutdown, according to leftists, and now he's still a tyrant? Let's be honest, nothing he could have done or does now will improve your opinion of him or the job he's done.
Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 05-11-2020, 10:11 AM:
^^^^^ Gospel ^^^^^
Especially that last sentence.
[ 05-11-2020, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Old Norm ]
Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 05-11-2020, 12:36 PM:
MM,
Your quotes remind me quite viscerally why I detest Trump, the Blowhard, the Loose Cannon, the Tweeting Nightmare. But, thank God, those are all merely words.
Look at his actions.
He has done literally everything a chief executive can do in a free society. Our governors and mayors have done MORE than should be done in a free society. Compared to other Western nations, we are doing well.
Again, since Europe shares our democratic values and has roughly similar economic and demographic numbers, let's see how we have done.
In the US, we have about 1.3M confirmed cases, out of which 80,662 have died. In the EU states, they have about 1,25M confirmed cases, out of which 147,558 have died. Roughly the same number of cases, but we have seen only 55% of the deaths that Europe has reported.
Again, ignoring his idiotic mouth and excruciatingly irritating character... look at the results. Look at his decisions and actions. WHAT MORE WOULD YOU WANT HIM TO DO?
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-11-2020, 02:16 PM:
Tip:
quote:
Your quotes remind me quite viscerally why I detest Trump, the Blowhard, the Loose Cannon, the Tweeting Nightmare. But, thank God, those are all merely words.
Tip, these are not just "mere" words when they come from the POTUS, they are heard all over the world. I can say tariff...nothing...Trump can say tariff, nations worry. Everything he says matters.
quote:
Look at his decisions and actions. WHAT MORE WOULD YOU WANT HIM TO DO?
Okay, Tip.
I'm not denying that my criticism of Trump is probably skewed by my total distrust and dislike for the man, but I don't think to the degree that's being suggested.
Maybe if someone could point out to me the "decisions and actions" Trump took.
I'm sincere, Tip, anybody? I wanna know.
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 05-11-2020, 04:56 PM:
Tip hit the nail on the head for me when it comes to Trump. I support most of his stated policies and, for the most part, I believe those policies and actions have been successful, including his handling of Covid19.
We’ve had presidents who were not particularly well spoken but none come close to embarrassing themselves with the English language as Trump. His tweets take on the tone of a petulant thirteen old girl as do most of his “news briefs”. I agree with MountainMafia, words matter, especially when you’re the president of the United States.
I understand those who support his policies, but for the life of me I fail to understand those of you who seem to idolize the man.
I’m a Republican and a conservative. Fortunately those beliefs do not prevent me from recognizing a braggart, blowhard, bully and pathological liar. I find his need for constant praise and adoration sickening.
I’ve prayed for a presidential candidate that would behave as a functioning adult this year. For whatever reason, it appears God has chosen not to answer that particular prayer. Unless something totally unexpected happens, I will vote Trump this year but I won’t like it one damn bit.
[ 05-11-2020, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-12-2020, 06:01 PM:
hc:
quote:
I will vote Trump this year but I won’t like it one damn bit.
I've actually voted for more Republicans than I have Democrats, even though I have never been registered as either one.
I know what I like and don't like, what I believe and don't believe, who I can trust and who I can't...I don't need a self-serving politician to tell me that! Sometimes choices are easy, sometimes they're not.
I did not vote in the last election (I know, an abdication of my civic duty) because I couldn't stand either Hillary or Trump...but if I had it to do over.....
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-12-2020, 06:17 PM:
Tip:
quote:
I would NEVER have imagined that our country would almost without a peep of protest give up our constitutional rights as easily and quickly as we did. It boggles my mind that, in the name of "safety", we have essentially opened the door to tyranny. Those who lust for power now have a blueprint on how to achieve total domination.
"It’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.”
— Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
Julius Caesar said basically the same thing...all you need is a boogeyman...real or imagined.
[ 05-12-2020, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 05-12-2020, 07:03 PM:
MM,
And that boogeyman is COVID-19. An irrational fear of a disease that is apparently just a bad flu.
I truly think this spring is a defining moment in history, a threshold event that will forever change the relationship between the people and our government. Perhaps more importantly, it has ushered in the era of the Technocrat. We should always listen to experts, but never let someone of such narrow expertise lead us.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-12-2020, 07:20 PM:
Tip:
quote:
And that boogeyman is COVID-19. An irrational fear of a disease that is apparently just a bad flu.
Ya know, Tip, I pray to God you're right...I think we are about to get the sh*t kicked out of us...we ain't nowhere near ready for a second wave..maybe later...not now, IMO.
quote:
We should always listen to experts, but never let someone of such narrow expertise lead us.
Well said, Tip....Thank you Sir!
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-12-2020, 08:39 PM:
"we ain't nowhere near ready for a second wave..maybe later...not now, IMO."
Really - the amount of money given to states to prepare for any future pandemic is unheard of in the past. Equipment, Hospitals, Staff are all better prepared to fight any future upticks..
The states especially NY, Ill, cal, Mich lA are resisting opening as a political ploy and IMV the only way ur party can win in Nov is keep the economy BAD
Further the leader of the House has put forth a new "stimulus" bill focusing on things like 1200 dols for each Illegal immigrant, Health care for everyone,and other Democratic agenda items.
Nope this has turned into a "democratic party" bag of things they want done using all of our taxpayer money to get it done. Don't let a crisis go to waste is the democratic parties way to "shove" the money from the taxpayer to their agenda..
P.S. can't wait for ur defense of the dirty tricks played on Gen Flynn!! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
[ 05-12-2020, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-12-2020, 08:47 PM:
Ed:
quote:
ur party
I’ve said before, Ed, you know nothing about me...let’s keep that way.
quote:
.S. can't wait for ur defense of the dirty tricks played on Gen Flynn!! [Wink]
He pleaded guilty...twice...two different judges..
[ 05-12-2020, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-12-2020, 08:55 PM:
Just deduction mM - if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck IT IS a duck!!
Ashamed? I am a reg rep and love Donald Trump!! in case you haven't "deducted".
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-12-2020, 09:00 PM:
p.s. Calif just announced that it will be shut down until Aug. Destroying their economy!
Does help their prisoners through as they are letting out inmates if they have the virus and they of course are doing their best to contract it while in jail..
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-12-2020, 09:14 PM:
Pelosi's bill has almost 1 trillion dols to bail out states, primarily blue states, ny, NJ, Ill, and Calif after nothing but mismanagement by the governors,.. CA for example pays over 43 billion yrly for illegal immigrants and NY over 20 Bill.
p.s. and only 10 million for small businesses!
I don't want my taxpayer money going on anyone but U.S. citizens! But of course I am not buying votes!
[ 05-12-2020, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-12-2020, 09:21 PM:
"Bullsh*t. We have had an incredible response given the size of our country and the nature of our government. We long ago traded "efficiency" in for "liberty", a bargain I wholly support."
Absolutely Tip - the WHO carried China's baggage and after Trump shut down tvl told the world that it was not necessary!! Thank god for trump or no telling where we would be - death wise if not for his quick actions..
[ 05-12-2020, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 05-12-2020, 10:10 PM:
I have to speak out about General Flynn and his "guilty pleas". He didn't do it until AFTER the FBI threatened to go after his son. Any of us real dads that love our sons, would most likely do the same. I know for sure I would,
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-12-2020, 10:14 PM:
"He pleaded guilty...twice...two different judges."
The FBI has dismissed the case and has said that he was railroaded and was in fact telling the truth.
I would request that you read the latest news on Gen Flynn!
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-12-2020, 11:10 PM:
Thank you Norm and ukc… the only ones still after Flynn are the ones that went after him in the first place. Everyone else can see how corrupt certain parts of the FBI are !!! They were told (I won't say his name) to go after President Trump (before he was the President) and everyone associated with him and if they didn't find something then make it the **** up !!!
They have attacked President Trump and his associates over and over for years now and still attacking from every direction and still not coming up with anything !!! And to think they then attack him for being racist when he shut down travel from China and they the ******* attacked him a month later for not doing it sooner !!!
Now the Dems are trying to buy their votes like they always do with the new stimulus bill of over a trillion dollars !!! What about the small business owners who have lost their businesses forever ??? Many will never open their doors again !!! And of course don't get me started on the $$$ to illegals and states that give millions if not billions towards illegals and then say they are going under. California deserves to lose everything they have after the DA decisions they have been making !!!
MEL
[ 05-12-2020, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: MEL ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-13-2020, 03:42 AM:
Norm:
quote:
I have to speak out about General Flynn and his "guilty pleas". He didn't do it until AFTER the FBI threatened to go after his son. Any of us real dads that love our sons, would most likely do the same. I know for sure I would
I would too, of course.
It’s a standard, often used prosecutorial tactic when multiple family members are involved in a crime....sacrifice the little fish to catch the big fish.
Gen Flynn lied to FBI. The only crime he was charged with because he turned state’s evidence and cooperated . Of course that evidence will be purged also.
Do you honestly believe a hardcore military man like Michael Flynn would buckle like that if the FBI had nothing?
Remember, Trump fired Flynn for lying to Pence.
[ 05-13-2020, 04:48 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-13-2020, 04:34 AM:
Ed:
quote:
The FBI has dismissed the case
And Trump couldn't wait to call his buddy Vlad to gloat about it. How sweet...kissy, kissy.
MEL:
quote:
What about the small business owners who have lost their businesses forever
Maybe we could ask these well-funded, greedy corporations that keep raiding the funds meant for small businesses.
quote:
California deserves to lose everything they have after the DA decisions they have been making !!!
Wanna guess what states would go under today, no wait, would have gone under years ago, if not for the federal teat?
We have a system in this country where we take from the wealthy states and give to the poor states...I think it's called redistribution of wealth...there is another name for it if I could only remember what it is.
[ 05-13-2020, 04:41 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 05-13-2020, 08:34 AM:
MM: Do you really think General Flynn is guilty of a crime, or is your dislike (put mildly) of the president clouding your vision? When I read your last post, I assumed that you "had a little buzz" going again. I have been praying for Ms Suzy and you both. I cannot imagine how hard this must be to deal with.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-13-2020, 09:05 AM:
Norm:
quote:
MM: Do you really think General Flynn is guilty of a crime,
I do, indeed, sir.
quote:
I have been praying for Ms Suzy and you both. I cannot imagine how hard this must be to deal with.
Thank you very much, Norm. She had her biopsy yesterday so now we have to wait until next Tuesday to see what kind of cancer (small-cell or non small-cell) and what stage. The treatment for small-cell requires much more aggressive procedures...radiation and chemo...whereas non small-cell can be treated with surgery.
Yeah, it's been worrisome, no doubt. I'm up and down most nights lately. But with the prayers from you and others on TCD, I think she will recover just fine.
quote:
When I read your last post, I assumed that you "had a little buzz" going again.
Not yet!...but I've got a few on ice for later.
[ 05-13-2020, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 05-13-2020, 10:30 AM:
I think it is pretty obvious the FBI set General Flynn up in the hopes of getting dirt on Trump. I respect the service he has given our county. I have zero problem with the charges against him being dropped.I am very disappointed in the FBI as more information on numerous incidents are revealed.
On the other hand, General Flynn is far from a national hero as some are making him out to be. I’ve not seen that insinuation on here but have in several other places. At least that is my perception.
He lied twice and admitted so. Trump fired him but that in itself means nothing. Trump has fired many good people for no apparent reason other than not kissing his ass. Maybe General Flynn falls in that category as I can not see him being a suck up.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-13-2020, 10:58 AM:
Flynn had initially repeated that he was guilty of lying, that no one had coerced him to admit his guilt and that he had no intention of taking back that plea. Flynn also said he took responsibility for wrongdoing that also culminated in his firing by Trump for misleading Vice President Pence, White House aides and the public.
Link
[ 05-13-2020, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-13-2020, 12:23 PM:
There is a good chance of criminal charges been filed against Comey, McCabe, Strzok and Page among others of obstruction of justice, perjury, false statement, and deprivation of rights under color of law in the Flynn case as they trapped him in the White House and told him that he didn't need a lawyer etc when interviewing him. The agents said that he wasn't lying and their 302 notes back it up.
Comey didn't care as the idea was to get him fired or worse.
Finally the FBI dismissed the case and all had to be done was a judge to approve the dismissal, but for now a liberal judge said he will wait awhile which is totally a political move to delay and delay. Another tactic for the liberals to attempt to win in 2020..
The above mentioned people and others better be praying that Trump gets beat otherwise they will go to jail during his second term. Of course if a democrat wins it will be sweep under the rug.
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-13-2020, 12:35 PM:
Ed:
quote:
There is a good chance of criminal charges been filed against Comey, McCabe, Strzok and Page among others of obstruction of justice, perjury, false statement, and deprivation of rights under color of law in the Flynn case as they trapped him in the White House and told him that he didn't need a lawyer etc when interviewing him. The agents said that he wasn't lying and their 302 notes back it up.
Do you have a link for this?
quote:
Of course if a democrat wins it will be sweep under the rug.
"The sweeping under the rug" is going on right now. Thank goodness for liberal judges.
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-13-2020, 12:40 PM:
Do you have a link for this?"
reported on news - fox to be exact..
plus the FBI unclassified and released the 302's
[ 05-13-2020, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-13-2020, 12:47 PM:
Good enough for me.
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-13-2020, 01:23 PM:
"Good enough for me."
Glad to hear that you are more informed. For certain, you wouldn't hear anything close to the truth on CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC or NBC.
To follow up on Flynn:
In Aug 2016 Ztrok in an email to his girlfriend Li
sa Page he said he doesn't believe trump can get elected but we cant take the risk and can call this a insurance policy.
in Sep 2016 Page emailed him and said that "the Potus wants to know everything we are doing."
In Jan 2017 -FBI reported that they had no derogatory info to report.
The next day after a meeting by held by Obama along with Rice, Yates, Comey, Biden and others, Obama pulled Yates and Comey aside to discuss Flynn. Yates said she was shocked to know of wiretapping of Flynn. (Declassified Document) .
On Feb 12 17 on her last day in office, Rice sent herself a cya memo saying that Obama said do everything by the book. Suspicious to say the least.
Further to the wiretapping, fisa warrants were obtained by the FBI on Flynn by using fake dossier info bought and paid for by the democratic party to have a way into the trump campaign.
Podester (Hilary's campaign mgr) under oath said that hilary knew this,..
This was a massive plot to unseat Trump by the Obama administration along with the fBI. Sick but true.
Further last Friday Obama said on yahoo news that "there is no precedent that anyone charged with perjury (Gen Flynn) getting off scot-free."
Of course he lies again as in 2016 he pardoned Gen Cartwright who was convicted of lying to the FBI in 2016.
This was such a corrupt administration that history will rip it a new one.
The Democrats can only pray old 302 Joe gets elected or so many people will get exposed!
[ 05-13-2020, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 05-13-2020, 01:27 PM:
ukc … no way President Obama or any democrat would do something shady !!! LMAO
MEL
[ 05-13-2020, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: MEL ]
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-13-2020, 01:38 PM:
Mel see my latest just posted above urs..
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-13-2020, 01:42 PM:
Ed:
quote:
Glad to hear that you are more informed. For certain, you wouldn't hear anything close to the truth on CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC or NBC.
I dunno, it's been pretty damn close, imo.
quote:
On Feb 12 17 on her last day in office, Rice sent herself a cya memo saying that Obama said do everything by the book. Suspicious to say the least.
Huh?
quote:
In Jan 2017 -FBI reported that they had no derogatory info to report.
The next day after a meeting by held by Obama along with Rice, Yates, Comey, Biden and others, Obama pulled Yates and Comey aside to discuss Flynn. Yates said she was shocked to know of wiretapping of Flynn. (Declassified Document) .
OK?
MEL:
quote:
no way President Obama or any democrat would do something shady !!!
If you say so....I didn't.
Ed:
quote:
Further last Friday Obama said on yahoo news that "there is no precedent that anyone charged with perjury (Gen Flynn) getting off scot-free."
Flynn was not convicted of perjury, he was convicted of lying to the FBI.
[ 05-13-2020, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-13-2020, 01:51 PM:
perjury/lying same (just how wrong Obama was)
p.s. overturned by the FBI
sorta nick picking aren't u
the basic writing of my narrative above is the truth and if that's the best u have, ok.
[ 05-13-2020, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-13-2020, 02:27 PM:
Well, Ed, how many cases do you know of where the defendant pled guilty twice before 2 different judges and the charges were dismissed by the people he pled guilty to?
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-13-2020, 02:33 PM:
Doesn't matter MM - the FBI says they have NO case and have dismissed it!
I know facts are irrelevant here but they do matter and finally because of the witch hunt, the FBI has been forced to back off! It will get worse as Durhams probe continues..who btw can charge and indict people whereas others could not as they were political in nature..
[ 05-13-2020, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 05-13-2020, 02:36 PM:
Ed:
quote:
Doesn't matter MM - the FBI says they have NO case and have dismissed it!
Well, Ed, it actually does matter.
quote:
the FBI has been forced to back off! It
Yeah, I know.
[ 05-13-2020, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-13-2020, 02:42 PM:
"Well, Ed, it actually does matter"
Actually you are right MM - but only to the people who will be indicted because of their breaking the law. Which btw most have started hiring lawyers and have clamed up...
Posted by clydeh (Member # 7) on 05-13-2020, 03:38 PM:
Different judgment and opinion:
Trump is bad and Trump is good. Which is true?
I was checking for a night light for my wife and me. I found one on the internet. I checked what previous buyer's commented about it.
One wrote "It is too bright"
Another wrote "It is not bright enough"
Which should I believe?
Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 05-13-2020, 04:31 PM:
FYI Clyedh what I posted recently has been documented and mostly unclassified just lately so that's one thing fm my point of view, and if CNN does not report it and FOX news does along with the reports (302's) I would tend to believe FOX...
The "quiet" on the major networks basically prove the what I reported is true, otherwise they would be all over it...
[ 05-13-2020, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 05-13-2020, 06:45 PM:
Nice analogy Dr Clyde. I suppose to get the night lite you want you would have to not only ask for opinions but actually compare the lites to see what their actual pros and cons are.
I believe the same to be true for news sources. If you get all your news from watching CNC, MSNBC etc your information will be so slanted toward the liberal side as to be unrecognizable as to what actually is happening.
If you get your news only through Fox, Newsmax etc your information will be so slanted toward the conservative side as to be unrecognizable as to what is actually happening.
Cable news is slanted toward their viewer base so they are extremely biased, at best. Major networks are little better, if any.
I primarily watch FOX but I realize they are an entertainment network presented for the enjoyment of their conservative base.
I watch a little of CNN but realize it too is presented for the entertainment of their liberal base.
Thank goodness for Facebook where everything posted has been verified as true, accurate and unbiased.
[ 05-13-2020, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posted by clydeh (Member # 7) on 05-14-2020, 07:36 PM:
Handy, I was thinking about my wife and how her prejudices affects her opinions and her actions. Several years we were going to sell our house and we got an excellent offer, but when she learned who the buyer was, she said "I'm not selling my house to somebody like that".
Sometimes facts are over ruled by prejudice and sometimes over ruled by a person's needs.
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