quote:

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The President will take criticism no matter when it happens.

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Originally posted by MountainMafia:
hc:

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The President will take criticism no matter when it happens.

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It's not for Trump to decide when or how...that will be left to each individual state.

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Originally posted by PaulCat:
He'll still take the blame.

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He'll still take the blame.

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President Trump who has taken charge of the virus protection.

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Just the way it is but IMV we are lucky to have a businessman vs a political in charge.

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Do you think this is his fault?

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I know some of your party member are already laying it at his feet,

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but I never expected you to join them.

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MM the left will NEVER give our President any slack just like you are doing here.

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What would you do?

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Let's go with your answer that Trump is absolutely responsible for the response for the United States.

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Originally posted by MountainMafia:

Norm:

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Do you think this is his fault?

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Not the virus, but the response?...Abso-damn-lutely!

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California - Population of 39 million and they have 13,438 cases

New York - Population of 19 million and they have 119,435 cases

How do you explain that?

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I've heard Gavin Newsome who absolutey has gone against Trump more than any Governor, give him and his team nothing but praise. While I hear Cuomo on the news everyday whining how Trump has done nothing.

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You know what I believe? I believe the help was there for any of the states to take and some took it and others did not.

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I have noticed how all the red-state governors got anything they needed.

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Examples, please.

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And, as pointed out here many times, the STATES are supposed to be prepared for these events. Somehow, you want it all to be handled by Washington.

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No state was more ill repaired than NY

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the democrats have already used it to get programs passed to fit their agenda to the tune of holding a crisis bill up which undoubtedly caused American lives. That is your democratic party!

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during the chosen ones presidency

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You talking about this guy?

The Chosen One
 

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Posted by rlt4uk (Member # 3194) on 04-07-2020, 03:47 PM:
 
Open the country now.
 

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Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 04-07-2020, 03:58 PM:
 
You may get your wish soon, rlt. My neighbor's son works at the Mercedes plant in Brookwood, Al.

He was notified today they were opening up the plant next week. The only reason they shut down was due to interruptions in the supply chain.

We'll see how it works out.
 

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Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 04-07-2020, 05:00 PM:
 
If the people testing positive, or have symptoms of COVID-19 would self quarantine, the rest of us wouldn't have to. This is just my opinion, so don't be jumping in my $#it about it. Yes, I know all about those with no symptoms but have the virus.
 

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Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 04-07-2020, 05:58 PM:
 
"And no country more ill-prepared than the US."

ask Italy and Spain that question..
 

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Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 04-07-2020, 07:49 PM:
 
Thank you ukcatfan !!!
Amen

MEL
 

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Posted by m hamilton (Member # 127) on 04-07-2020, 08:26 PM:
 
^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^
 

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Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 04-08-2020, 10:19 AM:
 
To follow up on ur "dems" can do no wrong" comment of

"What about the one McConnell put in for SUNSCREEN!"

Pelosi WAS the one who delayed the bill not McConnell which in fact delayed relief and hence killed people over her agenda and that of the left!

You can not shift that fact over to sunscreen and act like that is the answer!
 

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Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 04-08-2020, 10:53 AM:
 
Ed:

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"And no country more ill-prepared than the US."

ask Italy and Spain that question..

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Originally posted by MountainMafia:
TB:

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California - Population of 39 million and they have 13,438 cases

New York - Population of 19 million and they have 119,435 cases

How do you explain that?

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Since China uncovered their coverup Dec 31, there have been over 400,000 people of multiple nationalities arrive in the US from China, 40,000 since the travel "ban" Feb 2, a month later....with thousands flying directly from Wuhan.

Guess where they landed...Los Angeles, New York, San Fran, Seattle, New Jersey....notice a pattern?

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I've heard Gavin Newsome who absolutey has gone against Trump more than any Governor, give him and his team nothing but praise. While I hear Cuomo on the news everyday whining how Trump has done nothing.

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Newsome is more tactful than Cuomo.

He realizes in order to get any help from Trump you have to publicly give him a verbal blow job...you know, be "appreciative" as he put it...iow, bow down and kiss the ring.

Cuomo ain't going to do that...when Trump helps he says so...when Trump don't help, he says so.

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You know what I believe? I believe the help was there for any of the states to take and some took it and others did not.

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I have noticed how all the red-state governors got anything they needed.

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California a BLUE state has controlled their outbreak. New York a BLUE state has not. One was proactive and the other was not. I guess you can easily guess which one was proactive. I'm not a Newsome fan, but he showed leadership in the crisis. Good for him. He has done an excellent job. On the other hand, Cuomo just whined like a beeotch and his state and people are suffering the consequences and CNN, MSNBC, CBS, etc are praising him to no end. It makes absolutely no sense.

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This my friend puts you sharply in the camp of the radical left wing.

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Originally posted by MountainMafia:
TB:

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California a BLUE state has controlled their outbreak. New York a BLUE state has not. One was proactive and the other was not. I guess you can easily guess which one was proactive. I'm not a Newsome fan, but he showed leadership in the crisis. Good for him. He has done an excellent job. On the other hand, Cuomo just whined like a beeotch and his state and people are suffering the consequences and CNN, MSNBC, CBS, etc are praising him to no end. It makes absolutely no sense.

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OK, now I see your point...sorry I missed it. My answer is this.

New York City is the most densely populated place in the US. It has more people than LA, San Diego, San Fran, Oakland, Sacramento, Fresno, and San Jose combined. Take all these people and put them in one spot the size of New York City and the results would likely be much different

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I understand that you believe Trump should have done more, maybe you even believe he should have ordered the shelter in place for all major cities whereas I believe that is what the individual state Governors should have been doing.

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That's it in a nutshell....guess we'll just have to agree not to agree.
 

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Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 04-09-2020, 08:19 PM:
 
So let me see if I have this right MM … you think President Trump should have shut down the cities before the Governors did ???

If that is right I am guessing you want a "Central" government ??? I can't even imagine the backlash President Trump would have received from all the media and Dems for stepping on the Governor's rights.

If I am wrong let me know (which I am sure you will)

MEL
 

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Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 04-09-2020, 09:03 PM:
 
MEL:

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I can't even imagine the backlash President Trump would have received from all the media and Dems for stepping on the Governor's rights.

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If I am wrong let me know (which I am sure you will)

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I'll let you know if I think you're right also.

[ 04-09-2020, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
 

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Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 04-09-2020, 09:30 PM:
 
I have a feeling most of the governors would have not done what he asked (said).

MEL
 

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Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 04-09-2020, 09:43 PM:
 
Just asking, MEL....if Trump told Cuomo to open up the state and Cuomo refused...are you OK with that?
 

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Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 04-09-2020, 10:11 PM:
 
Let me ask you MM … who has the final say ???

MEL
 

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Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 04-09-2020, 10:16 PM:
 
Just asking, MEL....if Trump told Cuomo to open up the state and Cuomo refused...are you OK with that?
 

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Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 04-09-2020, 10:28 PM:
 
MM... I am not sure who has the final say … if it is President Trump then he gets to make that decision if it is the governor then they get to make it and of course the blame goes to the one that makes the final decision if it is wrong.

MEL
 

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Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 04-09-2020, 10:30 PM:
 
So I guess to answer your question if President Trump gets to make that call and the governor doesn't follow it I would be pissed and all hell should break loose if the governor doesn't follow his directive.

MEL
 

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Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 04-09-2020, 10:50 PM:
 
I am VERY much OK with a governor refusing to accept Trump's suggestion... which is all it would be. The President of the United States has limited powers, and is not our King. That is on purpose, to protect us from tyranny. I am fully on-board with having a less-than-efficient government in exchange for my freedom, thank you very much.

The only way Trump can override the Governor of a state is if marshal law was declared. Thank God Trump has not done that, despite the rumors and rumblings about troop mobilizations.

Trump would LOVE to be king, btw. Let's not tempt that side of his character. We are a FEDERAL REPUBLIC, and if you read your constitution, ALL POWERS NOT LISTED EXPLICITLY FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ARE RESERVED FOR THE STATES.

[ 04-09-2020, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]
 

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Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 04-09-2020, 11:01 PM:
 
MEL:

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I am not sure who has the final say

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I am VERY much OK with a governor refusing to accept Trump's suggestion... which is all it would be. The President of the United States has limited powers, and is not our King. That is on purpose, to protect us from tyranny. I am fully on-board with having a less-than-efficient government in exchange for my freedom, thank you very much.

The only way Trump can override the Governor of a state is if marshal law was declared. Thank God Trump has not done that, despite the rumors and rumblings about troop mobilizations.

Trump would LOVE to be king, btw. Let's not tempt that side of his character. We are a FEDERAL REPUBLIC, and if you read your constitution, ALL POWERS NOT LISTED EXPLICITLY FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ARE RESERVED FOR THE STATES.

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Tip, that is a great post!
 

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Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 04-09-2020, 11:03 PM:
 
Thanks Tip … I thought that was the way it was but wasn't 100% sure.
I too don't have a problem with a governor saying no to a suggestion from the President.
As far as "king" can you tell me any of the past few President's that didn't want to be a "king" ??? I can give you one in a New York second, but will keep it to myself

MEL
 

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Posted by rlt4uk (Member # 3194) on 04-10-2020, 01:15 AM:
 
I'm a conservative Republican, and stand with Trump 100%.I think he's doing a great job.
 

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Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 04-10-2020, 06:10 AM:
 
I too am a conservative Republican. I stand with most of the policies he “now” states are his beliefs. I also belief he is among the top ten a$$holes to ever wander the political landscape.

[ 04-10-2020, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]
 

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Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 04-10-2020, 11:30 AM:
 
Jimmy Carter was the nicest president in my lifetime. He was also the worst president. In that position, I'll take the asshole!
 

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Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 04-10-2020, 11:57 AM:
 
I am one that believes it was the right time to have someone (President Trump) that would come in and be the bad guy. The "good old boys" (and girls) stuff that has caused "the swamp" to become what it is today needs to change. You can call President Trump whatever you want and like him or not but things were going very well (jobs as well as other things were higher than they have been in years and years) until this damn virus hit. No I don't agree with everything he says and don't agree with how he says it sometime but we needed someone to come in and kick some ass IMHO !!!
We need our borders protected and we need to not give people that aren't citizens our hard earned money. I don't want to become a country that you have to work over half the year to actually make money for yourself. Not sure what the tax rate in Australia is now but 20 or so years ago it was 45% or so and they said it was going up every year. That means they have to work till July and probably later now to ever make money for themselves. I know they get "free" health care and so forth (but we all know there ain't nothing free … someone has to pay for it) !!! But the non working people also get the same things and they do get them "free" at least from their standpoint of not working themselves.
I appreciate someone that has come in (given up his salary … yeah I know he is a billionaire but how many other Presidents have done this) ??? He isn't a person that pats everyone on the back and gives out participation trophies and he says things that hurts peoples feelings and is crass but I think that is what we need as a country right now. General Patton wasn't a good guy in a lot of ways … he kicked some ass and usually a lot of it to get what needed to be done. No I am not comparing President Trump to Patten in every way but he doesn't play patty cake with the politians and pat them on the back like they do each other behind closed doors.
Again it is time for term limits across the board !!!

MEL

[ 04-10-2020, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: MEL ]
 

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Posted by rlt4uk (Member # 3194) on 04-10-2020, 12:36 PM:
 
Very well said mel.
 

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Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 04-10-2020, 01:58 PM:
 
MEL:

quote:

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The "good old boys" (and girls) stuff that has caused "the swamp" to become what it is today needs to change.

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You got that right!...see, I told you I would say so.
 

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Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 04-10-2020, 05:24 PM:
 
Norm said Jimmy Carter was the nicest president in my lifetime. He was also the worst president. In that position, I'll take the asshole!

I agree with that.
 

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Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 04-10-2020, 06:06 PM:
 
Tip:

quote:

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I am VERY much OK with a governor refusing to accept Trump's suggestion... which is all it would be. The President of the United States has limited powers, and is not our King. That is on purpose, to protect us from tyranny. I am fully on-board with having a less-than-efficient government in exchange for my freedom, thank you very much.

The only way Trump can override the Governor of a state is if marshal law was declared. Thank God Trump has not done that, despite the rumors and rumblings about troop mobilizations.

Trump would LOVE to be king, btw. Let's not tempt that side of his character. We are a FEDERAL REPUBLIC, and if you read your constitution, ALL POWERS NOT LISTED EXPLICITLY FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ARE RESERVED FOR THE STATES.

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He can NOT, however, unilaterally close down individual cities or states. He can URGE them to do so, and perhaps even find ways to coerce them (withhold federal funds, e.g.).

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I know that, Tip. It's just another illustration of Trump's disdain for any check on his behavior...even the constitution. Oversight is an insult to him.
 

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Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 04-10-2020, 07:37 PM:
 
Tip even during a "National Emergency" I.e. a war as been said by top officials ?

The two former Presidents for example, both used the National Emergency" clauses..One for 9-11 and the other one for the "swine flu" problem which occurred during his watch..This act was made available during President Ford's tenure in 1976.

[ 04-10-2020, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
 

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Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 04-10-2020, 07:51 PM:
 
Thanks MM

I also agreed with you on another topic on here

Who knows maybe I can convince you to change your strips after all just kidding

Stay safe ...

MEL
 

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Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 04-11-2020, 11:16 AM:
 
Ed, there are apparently specified limits to executive power are during a declared "national emergency". There are up to 136 different things that can be done, but 13 of the most sweeping acts require a congressional declaration. There apparently are two types -- it can be declared by the president (as in this case), or it can be declared by Congress. From Wikipedia:

Emergency powers
Congress has delegated at least 136 distinct statutory emergency powers to the President, each available upon the declaration of an emergency. Only 13 of these require a declaration from Congress; the remaining 123 are assumed by an executive declaration with no further Congressional input.[2]

Congressionally-authorized emergency presidential powers are sweeping and dramatic[18], and range from suspending all laws regulating chemical and biological weapons, including the ban on human testing (50 U.S.C. § 1515, passed 1969); to suspending any Clean Air Act implementation plan or excess emissions penalty upon petition of a state governor (42 U.S.C. (f) § 7410 (f), passed 1977); to authorizing and constructing military construction projects (10 U.S.C. (a) § 2808 (a), passed 1982) using any existing defense appropriations for such military constructions ($10.4 billion in FY2018[19]); to drafting any retired Coast Guard officers (14 U.S.C. § 331, passed 1963) or enlisted members (14 U.S.C. § 359, passed 1949) into active duty regardless of ineligibility for Selective Service. This lead the American magazine The Atlantic to observe that "the misuse of emergency powers is a standard gambit among leaders attempting to consolidate power."[18], because, in the words of Justice Robert H. Jackson’s dissent in Korematsu v. United States, the 1944 Supreme Court decision that upheld the internment of Japanese Americans, each emergency power “lies about like a loaded weapon, ready for the hand of any authority that can bring forward a plausible claim of an urgent need.”[18]

Invocations
As of March 2020, 60 national emergencies had been declared, with 31 of them being renewed annually. These include the eight that were declared prior to the passage of the 1976 Act.[1][4][20] The longest continuing national emergency dates back to November 1979 by the Carter administration blocking Iranian government property under the International
Emergency Economic Powers Act.[21]

Since passage of the National Emergencies Act in 1976, every U.S. President has declared multiple national emergencies: Carter (2); Reagan: (6); H.W. Bush (4); Clinton (17); W. Bush (12); Obama: (13); Trump (5).[22]

I cannot find the list of 123 powers that Trump can invoke. I will continue to search and get back to you.
 

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Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 04-11-2020, 11:59 AM:
 
I found a site that describes the mind-numbingly boring list of 'powers' granted to the President in an emergency.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200401070744/https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/guide-emergency-powers-and-their-use

Almost all of them involve removing restrictions on the military regarding personnel actions and limits. A few deal with agricultural issues. Several have to do with boats/ships. But only one pertains here:

Known as the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA), these statutes confer broad authority to regulate financial and other commercial transactions involving designated entities, including the power to impose sanctions on individuals and countries (1977)

to deal with any unusual and extraordinary threat, which has its source in whole or substantial part outside the United States” and "with respect to which a national emergency has been declared for purposes of this chapter and may not be exercised for any other purpose. Any exercise of such authorities to deal with any new threat shall be based on a new declaration of national emergency which must be with respect to such threat”

These powers are exclusively invoked in tandem with the National Emergencies Act and have been invoked in 55 separate emergency declarations since 1978. On average, IEEPA declarations are renewed annually for about 9 years. For a recent example of an invocation of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, see E.O. 13848, Imposing Certain Sanctions in the Event of Foreign Interference in a United States Election, 83 FR 46843, Sept. 12, 2018. For a comprehensive list of initial emergency declarations invoking IEEPA powers, see here.

Which means, basically, that we could freeze the assets of anyone we want to hold responsible for the Wuhan virus.

Other than that, and the 135 other meaningless provisions (you are free to read them yourself), there is nothing in there that would allow a president to over-rule a governor and order a lock-down of a city.

Thank God we live in a federal republic.
 

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Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 04-11-2020, 01:05 PM:
 
Tip thanks for all the work in finding out "stuff"
What about International airports (or all airports for that matter) … obviously any airport can be shut down by the President (see 911). Since they are still open I am guessing that they are exempt to state governors deciding what can be open and closed or is that one that governors have decided to leave open ???

MEL
 

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Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 04-11-2020, 01:49 PM:
 
All international airports handle both domestic and international flights. The US Immigration and Custom Enforcement agency can refuse entry to any person or material, and Trump has the authority to ban flights to or from any country. In theory, the FAA controls ALL flights in our airspace, and can shut all of them down.

Airports and ports are unique places, with lots of special rules. They are the main gateways in and out of our country, and since defending our sovereignty is part of the Executive Branch's responsibilities, and control of inter-state commerce is also under the same sphere, airports and flights can be controlled as deemed necessary.
 

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Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 04-11-2020, 03:34 PM:
 
Tip, unless I completely misunderstood what the President said in his news briefing a couple of days ago, he does not agree. I may not have understood his answer to this question as I admit to not being the sharpest tool in the shed.
 

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Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 04-11-2020, 07:56 PM:
 
I know you get tired of hearing this, hc, but you are right again...Trump does not agree.
 

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Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 04-14-2020, 02:46 PM:
 
Trump: "I have absolute authority".

The states: "I don't think so, bro".

Don't know how this is going to play out...may be something, may be nothing...hope it's nothing...last thing we need right now.
 

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