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Posted by ProBlue (Member # 2944) on 03-26-2018, 09:25 AM:

I did a little stat checking this morning on the four final four teams. They all come out to a average of a junior team. That's counting the 6th man. Of all four teams they are only Four Freshmen one on each team. Experience trumps Talent seems to be. These are 4 veteran teams that has played a while together. If we don't start recruiting some players that are good but will be staying for a while we are just going to be a revolving door like this year.

Vill.
4 Juniors-1 Fresh-1 Soph.

KU
4 Juniors-1 Fresh-1 Soph.

Mich. 2 Sr. 2 Juniors 1 Soph. 1 Fresh

Loyola Ch. 3 Seniors 2 Juniors 1 Fresh

Pretty much says it all !!

[ 03-26-2018, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: ProBlue ]

Posted by SCWC (Member # 2464) on 03-26-2018, 10:37 AM:

I know Kansas have two seniors on their starting five. I watched their senior night game on TV when they were honored. One is Graham and the other has is the 6 8 white kid with the long name. Plus Newman is a redshirt sophmore, he played his first year at Miss State, was one of our top recruiting targets three years ago. He is the one that basically won the game for Kansas over Duke yesterday.

[ 03-26-2018, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: SCWC ]

Posted by ProBlue (Member # 2944) on 03-26-2018, 11:08 AM:

SCWC I think Newman scored all their points in the overtime.

Posted by ProBlue (Member # 2944) on 03-26-2018, 11:11 AM:

The list are the ones with the most playing time and points.

Posted by Bama Cat (Member # 153) on 03-26-2018, 11:22 AM:

Makes sense to me. Of course this has been the same way most years since the 60s. Once in a while you can win with a team like the Fab Five but most of the time it's as you say, Experience trumps Athletisism, rankings, or what ever you want to call it.

To recruit this way you would have to recruit harder and spend a lot more time watching players. Right now Cal has a list of close to 20 high school seniors he needs to watch and then cut some or they cut themslelves from the list. Open recruiting would be a lot harder to get the right kids.

Right now we are nothing more than a training camp for kids going to the NBA.

Posted by SCWC (Member # 2464) on 03-26-2018, 11:47 AM:

Newman ended up with 32 points in the game, he clearly carried them in overtime and late in the game. I know Villanova start 4 juniors and one freshman. Villanova's point guard is now a 3 year starter and was also one of Cal's targets 4 years ago. Brunson is his name. Bridges who plays for Villanova is considered a lottery pick so maybe they will lose Brunson and Bridges to the NBA draft after this year. Kansas are going to get hit hard by graduation and more than likely the loss of Newman to the NBA but Bill Self always seems to have a veteran team.

Posted by blue hoot (Member # 398) on 03-26-2018, 01:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ProBlue:
I did a little stat checking this morning on the four final four teams. They all come out to a average of a junior team. That's counting the 6th man. Of all four teams they are only Four Freshmen one on each team. Experience trumps Talent seems to be. These are 4 veteran teams that has played a while together. If we don't start recruiting some players that are good but will be staying for a while we are just going to be a revolving door like this year.

Vill.
4 Juniors-1 Fresh-1 Soph.

KU
4 Juniors-1 Fresh-1 Soph.

Mich. 2 Sr. 2 Juniors 1 Soph. 1 Fresh

Loyola Ch. 3 Seniors 2 Juniors 1 Fresh

Pretty much says it all !!

Exactly! I've said this for years and no one listen's. When we won it all in 2012 we had a few upperclassmen that helped a lot. I think our freshmen this year did fine but it's just not nearly enough to compete with veteran teams. Perfect example, if we had couple juniors, we would beat K-State by 25.

[ 03-26-2018, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: blue hoot ]

Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 03-26-2018, 01:46 PM:

Give me the top 5 recruits in the nation and I'll take it every year. I hate that I never feel as I get to know these kids but I for one will take talent over experience every time. Of course as my wife says to me all the time, what do I know.

Posted by SCWC (Member # 2464) on 03-26-2018, 02:02 PM:

Our 2012 National Championship team had Darius Miller who was a key to their winning it all in my opinion. He had been a starter in his Soph and Jr years but came off the bench his senior year. I recall the championship game between the Cats and Kansas just like it was yesterday. We were up by 11, Kansas went on a run late and cut it to 4, in comes Darius Miller who immediately hits a three point shot on one end, gets a steal and a dun on the other and it is back to nine points in a matter of a minute and the game was basically over after that, the run took all the win out of the comeback of Kansas.

Posted by rlt4uk (Member # 3194) on 03-26-2018, 02:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by blue hoot:

quote:
Originally posted by ProBlue:
I did a little stat checking this morning on the four final four teams. They all come out to a average of a junior team. That's counting the 6th man. Of all four teams they are only Four Freshmen one on each team. Experience trumps Talent seems to be. These are 4 veteran teams that has played a while together. If we don't start recruiting some players that are good but will be staying for a while we are just going to be a revolving door like this year.

Vill.
4 Juniors-1 Fresh-1 Soph.

KU
4 Juniors-1 Fresh-1 Soph.

Mich. 2 Sr. 2 Juniors 1 Soph. 1 Fresh

Loyola Ch. 3 Seniors 2 Juniors 1 Fresh

Pretty much says it all !!
Exactly! I've said this for years and no one listen's. When we won it all in 2012 we had a few upperclassmen that helped a lot. I think our freshmen this year did fine but it's just not nearly enough to compete with veteran teams. Perfect example, if we had couple juniors, we would beat K-State by 25.

You're not the only one who has been saying this, I've been saying it for years too. I believe you have to have a good mixture of upper classmen and talented freshmen.

Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 03-26-2018, 02:55 PM:

p.s a lot of those players are red shirts - vill for example has four - kan at least one. us none that played.. experience means a lot in any sport or profession..

Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 03-26-2018, 03:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by handycat:
Of course as my wife says to me all the time, what do I know.

Sounds like a smart woman. [Big Grin]

Sorry, Handy, I had to go there. [Smile]

Posted by ProBlue (Member # 2944) on 03-26-2018, 03:24 PM:

Good Team is like a good cup of coffee it takes a good blend to percolate to win a championship. Couple spoonfuls of 5 star freshmen 2-4 spoonfuls of juniors and seniors and it would taste great, LOL.

Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 03-26-2018, 03:37 PM:

handy said
Give me the top 5 recruits in the nation and I'll take it every year.
________________________________________

no one but no one gets that ANY yr..

DUke nxt yr has close to that - fact is K is out recruiting Cal

Posted by blue hoot (Member # 398) on 03-26-2018, 04:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ukcatfannfl:
handy said
Give me the top 5 recruits in the nation and I'll take it every year.
________________________________________

no one but no one gets that ANY yr..

DUke nxt yr has close to that - fact is K is out recruiting Cal

I would take them too but it's impossible to win the whole thing with all freshmen. I don't even think we could beat Loyola with them having all that experience. With that said, Cal does an amazing job with working with all freshmen.

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 03-26-2018, 06:03 PM:

Cal has won over 81% of his games coaching Kentucky and he won over 78% coaching Memphis and did it with a whole lot of freshmen.

Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 03-26-2018, 08:54 PM:

I would say they are all there because they each won 4 games. [Big Grin]

Let's be honest, 2 of the 4 are lucky to be there. Michigan hit a miracle shot at the buzzer or goes home in round 2, Loyola hits two buzzer beaters to advance and a three close to the buzzer to go up 4 in the Sweet 16 to advance.

I saw the replay of the Grayson Allen shot, I'm not sure how that ball didn't go in either time, so Kansas is even a little lucky to be there.

[ 03-26-2018, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 03-26-2018, 09:31 PM:

I will always believe you go after the best players when recruiting. Period. To go after a couple of 5 stars and maybe a couple of guys you think may stay around a few years just doesn't make sense to me. Even Cal and K don't have crystal balls at their disposal. Who knows what will happen. Injuries, talent doesn't develope, bad attitudes, suspension etc.

I don't believe there is a college coach anywhere that will not take the best available talent if he can get them. I don't believe any coach will take a 2nd or 3rd tier player when he could get a top recruit. I know there are other things you have to take into consideration like attitude, basketball IQ etc. IMO, everything else being somewhat equal, go after the best and roll the dice. They will have almost a years experience when the tournament comes around.

Cal and I have talked about this many times on our calls and this is the way we have decided to recruit. I suppose it's possible Tiptree could get enough of that rotgut whiskey in Cal that coach could change his mind but I doubt it.

[ 03-26-2018, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]

Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 03-27-2018, 01:51 AM:

btw handy he likes makers!