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Posted by Green-Bean (Member # 13551) on 02-21-2015, 04:33 PM:

FOR FRESHMEN, AND I QUOTE, HE SAYS IF THEY DO THAT HE KNOWS ONE TEAM THAT WILL HAVE 20 THOUSAND FANS EACH GAME, AND ALL OF THEM ON TV. WONDER WHAT TEAM THAT IS.? SEAN IS KEEPING THE DOOR OPEN FOR A PROMOTION SOME DAY. THANK SO?

Posted by m hamilton (Member # 127) on 02-22-2015, 09:44 PM:

Now the Big ten is talking about it as well. Like coach said, let these conferences do it! Someone has to be the guinea pig!

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 02-22-2015, 10:08 PM:

I sure don't see it happening, just a lot of talk.

Posted by m hamilton (Member # 127) on 02-23-2015, 04:36 AM:

I don't understand why you would want history to repeat itself. They tried this once already!

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 02-23-2015, 01:19 PM:

The current rule in effect was voted in back in 1972 and it has worked pretty darn good imo. Why change something that seems to be working?

Posted by m hamilton (Member # 127) on 02-23-2015, 07:00 PM:

I don't know because kids are still going to school. CAl reported tonight that Julius Randall has been attending classes!

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 02-23-2015, 08:02 PM:

That is really good news and hope Randle gets his degree in the future.

Posted by m hamilton (Member # 127) on 02-23-2015, 09:51 PM:

I think these kids are working on it in the off season! Rumor has it Davis has been working on his!

Posted by boomdaddy (Member # 2644) on 02-24-2015, 07:31 AM:

I don't get why anyone thinks it is a big deal for a big time pro athlete to get his degree? Yes, the student athletes need to succeed in the classroom, because not many make it to the pros. But the ones that are first round pics? What will it help? Really? What they need is an iron clad prenup, before getting married and an outstanding PR person to get them endorsements.

A college degree is the biggest scam in today's society. it is way overpriced and that degree is not what you need to know in the real world. I remember meeting a professor once, he couldn't make it in the business world, so he changed professions and started teaching so he could make a living. Those who do, do. Those who can't, teach.

Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 02-24-2015, 10:35 AM:

boomdaddy,

You are quite the font of pithy sayings. "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach" is such a tired saying, and a slap to the face of those who CAN, but CHOOSE to teach. And there are many of them out there. And thank God for them.

I value my college education far, FAR beyond what I paid for it. It gives form and substance to my understanding of the world, and has enriched me beyond all expectations, both materially and intellectually. An education is far more than a ticket to a job -- it is a life-changing opportunity for self-improvement.

My hat is off to Randle, Davis, and all the others who come back to continue their education. Clearly, they see value in it. Who are you to belittle them?

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 02-24-2015, 10:51 AM:

Tt, you nailed and I'm sure you speak for most every member on TCD.

Posted by boomdaddy (Member # 2644) on 02-24-2015, 12:39 PM:

I don't belittle anyone who wants to get a degree. But, in the big picture of life, that degree means squat to anyone who has made a fortune in the NBA.

What is the main purpose of a young person getting a degree or a phd or doctorate? Correct me if I am wrong, bit I would think that the main reason is to be able to gain successful employment in a chosen career, preferably white collar.

Yes, I do see the importance in all of being educated, to a certain point. However, that does not change my opinion of the higher education system as a scam on our youth and an undeserved financial burden on their backs.

There is no reason that going to college should cost as much as it does. Furthermore, a poor white male gets pushed into the quick sand, while black female with a spanish accent get a wheel barrow full of free money to attend the college of her choice. What the cost of a college education has done is making the divide between the rich and the poor even greater. The middle class is shrinking. Without a strong middle class, you have a very weak economy. Pricing education through the roof is just one of the factors that contribute to a shrinking middle class.

I don't begrudge the scholarship athletes a single thing. More power to them. They should strive to earn their degrees, while they are on campus. But, if they go pro and earn big money, that degree turns into a piece of paper, not a ticket to a better life. And I can tell you this, anyone hauls in the money that they do over their careers, doesn't need to validate themselves by getting that college diploma.

Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 02-24-2015, 04:25 PM:

Boomdaddy,

This is way off topic, so I will make this last post on the topic of education and be done with it.

quote:
There is no reason that going to college should cost as much as it does.

Take a walk around the UK campus. Look at the buildings, the labs, the equipment. And go in May, when the grounds are spectacularly beautiful. Consider that UK attempts to hire the very brightest and most promising professors, which puts them in a bidding war with other, better known universities. Now realize that UK has 23,000 or so students, and over 20,000 employees.

Now, imagine how much money all of that costs.

And, despite all those billions invested and hundreds of millions required to keep it operating, UK is fairly reasonably priced.

For contrast, I work at a private college. Because we receive no tax subsidies, our costs are about triple that of UK. Yet, my college would probably fit your definition of what a college should be: A place to hone your skills for the marketplace. Our engineers are in high demand, and the average graduate starts out earning nearly $70,000 per year. We also seek to hire the very best professors, have state-of-the-art labs, and provide a world-class education to our students. But all of that costs money. A LOT of money.

As I said earlier, the price I paid for my education pales in comparison to the benefit I received. And I have never worked in the same field as my degree!

quote:
Furthermore, a poor white male gets pushed into the quick sand, while black female with a spanish accent get a wheel barrow full of free money to attend the college of her choice. What the cost of a college education has done is making the divide between the rich and the poor even greater.

Now we are veering off the value of an education to the whims and unintended consequences of government policy. I agree with everything you said here, and left to their own devices, colleges and universities used to do a very good job of ensuring that qualified individuals of any background had a fair chance of making a go of it.

I was originally admitted to Centre college, the only school I had applied to (thinking that they would never accept me... I really didn't want to go to college!). My parents were very, very poor; sometimes my own earnings from a paper route or prize money for awards were needed for groceries. But Centre provided me with sufficient financial aid that I as able to make a realistic go for it. Later, when I transferred to UK, the same thing happened. But all that was pre-Affirmative Action, which has skewed the playing field considerably.

quote:
The middle class is shrinking. Without a strong middle class, you have a very weak economy. Pricing education through the roof is just one of the factors that contribute to a shrinking middle class.

I think the reality isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Colleges talk about something called the 'discount rate' -- how much the average student gets in financial aid. My little engineering school is pretty typical, with a discount rate around 50%. Some kids pay nothing; others pay full ride. But the average admit pays about half the 'list price' to attend. If you are motivated, and maybe willing to work to pay some of the costs, there is no reason not to attend college.

NBA millions are great. As one famous person once said "I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is better". But a good life doesn't depend only on earning millions. There are a lot of unhappy millionaires out there.

Here's my opinion: Wealth is a multiplier; if you have a good life, it makes it better. If you haven't already figured out how to enjoy this world before you get rich, money won't make you any happier. But an education is additive -- it always leaves the recipient better off.

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 02-24-2015, 05:43 PM:

That's exactly why I am a Poythress fan, he valued his education so much that he put in a lot of his time studying and taking enough courses to graduate in 3 years and probably will have his masters real soon. A true student athlete which should make us all proud and will make it in his life if he becomes a NBA player or not.

Posted by Green-Bean (Member # 13551) on 02-24-2015, 06:07 PM:

I WISH THE HELL I HAD A COLLEGE EDUCATION, MAYBE MY DAMN BACK WOULDNT HURT SO DANG BAD ALL THE TIME, FROM LOADING TRUCKS AT PEPSI COLA FOR DAMN NEAR 30 YRS, I COULD HAVE BEEN IN THE OFFICE, PICKING UP A PEN, INSTEAD OF CASES OF PEPSI. DONT EVER UNDERESTIMATE A GOOD EDUCATION, TAKE THAT FROM OLD GREEN BEAN, JUST LOOK I CANT TYPE, SPELL OR NOTHING.

Posted by WildcatFanatic (Member # 2932) on 02-24-2015, 08:15 PM:

Green Bean that is a great post. I have to agree with you and Tip, saying much the same thing in different ways, on the value of an education even though I hate to see young people going into so much debt so early in life to get it. Athletes are getting a super deal having this paid for in full if they want to take advantage of it. Pro athletes returning to get their degrees says a lot about how they see the value of an education.

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 02-24-2015, 08:55 PM:

WF, That's exactly why the 2 year rule would be great for all concerned. If a player leaves after 2 years and it doesn't work out he is far more apt to finish his education if he only needs two years to get his degree.

Posted by Green-Bean (Member # 13551) on 02-24-2015, 11:38 PM:

GET UR EDUCATION. PLEASE TAKE THAT FROM THIS OLD TIMER.

Posted by m hamilton (Member # 127) on 02-25-2015, 06:09 AM:

Yeah, but when you are young, GB, you don't listen to what teh wise man has to say. It's not until you get into your later years that you realize what the old timer said was true!

Posted by Green-Bean (Member # 13551) on 02-25-2015, 09:08 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by m hamilton:
Yeah, but when you are young, GB, you don't listen to what teh wise man has to say. It's not until you get into your later years that you realize what the old timer said was true!

HOW TRUE THAT IS HAMILTON, I WORKED 6 YRS IN COAL MINES AGAINST MY DADS RULES, MY SISTER HAD TO SIGN FOR ME I WAS SO YOUNG, MY DAD WORKED 42 YRS IN COAL MINES.

Posted by Green-Bean (Member # 13551) on 02-25-2015, 09:09 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by WildcatFanatic:
Green Bean that is a great post. I have to agree with you and Tip, saying much the same thing in different ways, on the value of an education even though I hate to see young people going into so much debt so early in life to get it. Athletes are getting a super deal having this paid for in full if they want to take advantage of it. Pro athletes returning to get their degrees says a lot about how they see the value of an education.

THANK U WCFF. AND FOR ALL THE KIND WORDS.

Posted by boomdaddy (Member # 2644) on 02-25-2015, 09:45 AM:

It is not in the best interest of the athletes to mandate a two year rule to stay in college. The one year rule was instituted by the NBA, not the NCAA. Should the NCAA mandate a two year rule, the major conferences should recede from that organization, in regards to Men's basketball. The NCAA is a scam. They keep the majority of the millions generated for Men's basketball tourney. The schools get the trickle down effect. The major universities do not need the NCAA and there greedy ways.

There are two money makers in college sports, football and men's basketball. The women's programs suck the money out of the university coffers. Title IX mandates that the women programs, even though they do not generate any revenue, must be taken care of.

I laugh every time I read anything about the NCAA and their judgement of who is and who isn't eligible or who is considered an amateur. I can tell you this, there is money grubbing monster in the the room. It is the NCAA.

[ 02-25-2015, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: boomdaddy ]

Posted by ukman (Member # 3032) on 02-25-2015, 10:01 AM:

Boomdaddy, I personally think your comment about teachers is completely ignorant. I have been teaching and coaching for 20 years, and I am sure I could have done something to make more money in that time. And I do take your comment as a complete insult to what I have chosen to do with my life. I feel the God called me to teach and lead young people. Teachers are given responsibility for everyone's most prized possessions, their kids. We have those kids for at least 7 hours a day, more if you coach them, and we have the opportunity to have a huge impact on their life. We are the ones, hopefully along with the parents, that are helping these kids to be future leaders of our country, good citizens, and we are trying to inspire them to greatness. Teaching is a difficult job with small rewards. You certainly do not get financial rewards, and often times you just get grief from parents who think their kid is perfect and can do no wrong. Now a days parents often times expect the teachers to be the ones raising their kids. The rewards that you do get are the times a kid actually tells you how you made difference in their life, and I wouldn't trade that for any money. It is sad that you feel teachers are worth so little, when in fact they are some of the most important people we have on this planet. They should be respected for what they do, and praised for the fact that they choose to do it. Not belittled by those that are ignorant to what a teacher actually does.

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 02-25-2015, 12:12 PM:

ukman you are commended and admired for your for devotion to the young people of our country. Thank you so much! My granddaughter is a first grade teacher and truly loves her job. My wife comes every month or so and reads to the kids. They call her grandma turtle as that is her nickname to all our grandchildren.

Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 02-25-2015, 02:09 PM:

I have six teachers in my immediate family, counting in-laws. Not a one in the bunch that can't "do".

Posted by Green-Bean (Member # 13551) on 02-25-2015, 04:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ukman:
Boomdaddy, I personally think your comment about teachers is completely ignorant. I have been teaching and coaching for 20 years, and I am sure I could have done something to make more money in that time. And I do take your comment as a complete insult to what I have chosen to do with my life. I feel the God called me to teach and lead young people. Teachers are given responsibility for everyone's most prized possessions, their kids. We have those kids for at least 7 hours a day, more if you coach them, and we have the opportunity to have a huge impact on their life. We are the ones, hopefully along with the parents, that are helping these kids to be future leaders of our country, good citizens, and we are trying to inspire them to greatness. Teaching is a difficult job with small rewards. You certainly do not get financial rewards, and often times you just get grief from parents who think their kid is perfect and can do no wrong. Now a days parents often times expect the teachers to be the ones raising their kids. The rewards that you do get are the times a kid actually tells you how you made difference in their life, and I wouldn't trade that for any money. It is sad that you feel teachers are worth so little, when in fact they are some of the most important people we have on this planet. They should be respected for what they do, and praised for the fact that they choose to do it. Not belittled by those that are ignorant to what a teacher actually does.

THANKS UKMAN, FOR TEACHING THESE KIDS. DONT PAY ATTENTION TO SOME POSTERS ON HERE, THE OLD SAYING IS SOMETIMES ITS BEST TO JUST KEEP UR MOUTH SHUT, AND BE IGNORANT THEN TO OPEN YO MOUTH AND REMOVE ALL DOUBT.WHICH A CERTAIN POSTER DOES QUITE OFTEN.

Posted by boomdaddy (Member # 2644) on 02-25-2015, 05:07 PM:

I stand by my opinion that a college degree is over priced and that a degree loses its significance for those that are already extremely wealthy.

There are good and bad in every profession. Tenure is the safety net for a lot of educators. A lot of them can coast or be on auto pilot after that. It doesn't mean that everyone does, but you won't find many other professions that have that kind of safety net.

I am in favor of higher salaries for teachers. I think it should be incentive based on performance and that tenure should be done away with. Pay them more money, but make sure they perform.

[ 02-25-2015, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: boomdaddy ]

Posted by ukman (Member # 3032) on 02-26-2015, 12:04 PM:

Boom, I definitely agree on the tenure. That is a joke to me. I would just suggest that you don't use a generalized statement if you are just referring to some teachers. I know there are good and bad in every profession, but to say "those that can't do, teach" is an unfair statement, and offensive to teachers that work hard. I do agree that the price of college is way overboard. I have a sophomore daughter and we are starting to look. It is ridiculous how much public in state education is. I agree that it should be more affordable.

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 02-26-2015, 01:08 PM:

I have 2 grandson twins that are graduating from college this year, one from UK and one from WF and they both have very good job offers already. It was expensive no doubt about it but it's almost mandatory if you want to get a decent job now of days.

Posted by m hamilton (Member # 127) on 02-26-2015, 02:17 PM:

It's just a shame you have to have a house payment before you can get a good paying job, though!

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 02-26-2015, 02:48 PM:

That's the way it is and there is nothing you can do about it. Life is hard and getting harder.

Posted by boomdaddy (Member # 2644) on 02-26-2015, 03:55 PM:

By the way, the one who made the statement: Those who do, do and those who can't, teach, was the guy who left the business world and became a professor and said he couldn't wait to make tenure, because like was rough in the real world.

I realize that got some up in arms over it, but an actual professor is the one said it. I just repeated it.

[ 02-26-2015, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: boomdaddy ]

Posted by m hamilton (Member # 127) on 02-26-2015, 10:21 PM:

That old saying has been around a while!

Posted by GA Cat (Member # 642) on 02-26-2015, 11:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by boomdaddy:
By the way, the one who made the statement: Those who do, do and those who can't, teach, was the guy who left the business world and became a professor and said he couldn't wait to make tenure, because like was rough in the real world.

I realize that got some up in arms over it, but an actual professor is the one said it. I just repeated it.

Just because one college educated person made an idiotic statement doesn't make it worth repeating, much less does it make it true.

Masters Degree in Engineering and two bachelors degrees in Math and Chemistry and glad I have them. Doesn't make me better than anybody else, just makes me better than I once was.

[ 02-26-2015, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: GA Cat ]

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 02-27-2015, 12:03 AM:

Congrats to you Ga Cat and I am sure you worked hard for those degrees. You set a good example and should be very proud of your accomplishments.

Posted by boomdaddy (Member # 2644) on 02-27-2015, 02:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA Cat:

quote:
Originally posted by boomdaddy:
By the way, the one who made the statement: Those who do, do and those who can't, teach, was the guy who left the business world and became a professor and said he couldn't wait to make tenure, because like was rough in the real world.

I realize that got some up in arms over it, but an actual professor is the one said it. I just repeated it.
Just because one college educated person made an idiotic statement doesn't make it worth repeating, much less does it make it true.

Masters Degree in Engineering and two bachelors degrees in Math and Chemistry and glad I have them. Doesn't make me better than anybody else, just makes me better than I once was.

I believe it was worth repeating. The whole point was that being a professor was a much easier job for him, than working for a for profit business. The whole premise that educators can skate by doing the minimum and keep their jobs is a major factor of what is wrong with the education system.

Here is just one article about how the cost of a college degree has risen much sharper than the average inflation rate.

Link

I am sure there are lots more. There is no reason for the costs to be so high. By the way, if you wish to keep earning more degrees for self improvement, more power to you. Nothing wrong with having a passion or a hobby, as long as it can be afforded.

[ 02-27-2015, 03:21 AM: Message edited by: boomdaddy ]

Posted by Green-Bean (Member # 13551) on 02-27-2015, 04:34 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA Cat:

quote:
Originally posted by boomdaddy:
By the way, the one who made the statement: Those who do, do and those who can't, teach, was the guy who left the business world and became a professor and said he couldn't wait to make tenure, because like was rough in the real world.

I realize that got some up in arms over it, but an actual professor is the one said it. I just repeated it.
Just because one college educated person made an idiotic statement doesn't make it worth repeating, much less does it make it true.

Masters Degree in Engineering and two bachelors degrees in Math and Chemistry and glad I have them. Doesn't make me better than anybody else, just makes me better than I once was.

CONGRATS GACAT IF I HAD THAT MUCH EDUCATION I WOULD BE DANGEROUS, I'D WALK AROUND ALL DAY SYPHERING. YOU DA MAN!!

Posted by GA Cat (Member # 642) on 02-27-2015, 09:28 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by boomdaddy:

quote:
Originally posted by GA Cat:

quote:
Originally posted by boomdaddy:
By the way, the one who made the statement: Those who do, do and those who can't, teach, was the guy who left the business world and became a professor and said he couldn't wait to make tenure, because like was rough in the real world.

I realize that got some up in arms over it, but an actual professor is the one said it. I just repeated it.
Just because one college educated person made an idiotic statement doesn't make it worth repeating, much less does it make it true.

Masters Degree in Engineering and two bachelors degrees in Math and Chemistry and glad I have them. Doesn't make me better than anybody else, just makes me better than I once was.
I believe it was worth repeating. The whole point was that being a professor was a much easier job for him, than working for a for profit business. The whole premise that educators can skate by doing the minimum and keep their jobs is a major factor of what is wrong with the education system.

Here is just one article about how the cost of a college degree has risen much sharper than the average inflation rate.

Link

I am sure there are lots more. There is no reason for the costs to be so high. By the way, if you wish to keep earning more degrees for self improvement, more power to you. Nothing wrong with having a passion or a hobby, as long as it can be afforded.

Boom, the problem with the statement you repeated is that it does not insult the few that skate by, but it insults all educators, so no, it is not worth repeating even if it was said by one of the few. The one who said it was trying to justify his own failures by bringing others down to his level. I have several friends who are hard working college professors who not only can but have done. My graduate advisor who was a professor at Ga Tech is not an innovation leader for one of the largest pulp and paper organizations in the world and lives in Hong Kong. I know many others that have moved from academia to successful careers in the "real world". Are there bad apples in academia, sure there are, but that does not justify a blanket statement that implies that all professors are out of touch with the requirements to make it in the "real world." The greatest inventions of our day and the most advanced medical proceedures come of teaching hospitals and universities. Do I like the liberal spin and the tenure mentality that develops in some....absolutely not, but that does not justify a blanket statement like you made. You can continue to defend it an insult all teaching professionals on the university level if you like, but as for me, it is still an idiotic statement that does not deserve repeating because it insults may professionals about whom it is not true.

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 02-27-2015, 11:05 AM:

Well said Ga Cat!