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Topic: We Were One Rebound and One Missed Three Away
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ALA_KAT2
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Member # 1559
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posted 01-30-2016 10:28 PM
From the victory in regulation. I liked our chances with 9 sec to go and the ball in Ulis' hands. He played a great game and uncharacteristically made a couple key turnovers late. Once it got to OT, I ( and I bet most of the rest of you) knew it was over. We had too many key players out and were struggling on offense. Our guys played with heart though til the end.
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Adair CHS 1966/USAF/WKU/AT&T
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Posts: 4046 | From: Louisville, KY | Registered: Dec 2001
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 01-31-2016 06:18 AM
I was totally shocked that Ulis over penetrated and turned the ball over late in regulation, that was our best chance to win the game and very non Ulis. Still very proud of the effort of the kids but free throw shooting and three point shooting has been our achilles heel all season long and it showed its ugly head in the second half last night. 1 for 13 from behind the three point line will get you beat unless you have a very strong rebounding team which we do not have this year.
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michigankat
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Member # 2775
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posted 01-31-2016 09:31 AM
The play was designed for Murray to go to the corner. Had he been there the turnover would not have happened.
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boomdaddy
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Member # 2644
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posted 01-31-2016 09:40 AM
Besides the fact that Kentucky's big men were fouled out of the game, it was a pretty good effort on the road. I am always biased, when it comes to the refs, not sure if it was called fairly or not, because I can't be objective.
Posts: 8791 | From: paris, ky | Registered: Mar 2006
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catmandoo
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Member # 1284
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posted 01-31-2016 10:09 AM
Briscoe missed 3 straight free throws in over-time that REALLY hurt too. Hopefully the coaching staff will work with him and his 40% average from the line for the season. If the coachs can't help would bring someone like a Macy that would help him. The other thing concerning free throws that hurt was Kansas made 17 more than we did. You can't give a quality team like Kansas that big of a advantage as it is just to hard to make up especially when they out shoot you from the 3 point line by 9 points too and you only shoot 21% on your 3 point shots. It truly is amazing we did so well and gave them such a good game.
[ 01-31-2016, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: catmandoo ]
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 01-31-2016 10:21 AM
Who in the world was supposed to be guarding Selden last night. He went of for 33 points against our guards and he is not a 33 point scorer????
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catmandoo
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Member # 1284
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posted 01-31-2016 10:41 AM
I have the game taped and will check it out, I would think however we would have had Murray or Briscoe on him. We probably used both of them on him at different times.
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Posts: 186359 | From: st. augustine florida 32092 | Registered: Mar 2001
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 01-31-2016 12:02 PM
Michigan Kat, where did you hear that the play was designed to go to Murray in the corner. I watched the game, listened to the after game shows etc and nothing was said about Murray going to the corner on the play where Tyler turned the ball over???
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michigankat
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Member # 2775
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posted 01-31-2016 12:17 PM
SCWC..Watch the play and see how Tyler reacts to it. He was upset that Murray did not go there.
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Posts: 454 | From: Birmingham, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2007
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michigankat
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Member # 2775
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posted 01-31-2016 12:18 PM
The play was designed for Tyler to go into the middle and kick it out. If Murray had gone to the corner the turnover probably would not have happened.
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Posts: 454 | From: Birmingham, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2007
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 01-31-2016 01:26 PM
How do you know that. I saw the game too and I have also watched that part again, don't know what you are talking about. There was no time out and Cal was trusting Ulis to make the right play which he normally does. Why would we be taking a three point shot when we did not need too, that in itself would have been a bad play call. We were 1 for 13 in the second half from three point land, not exactly the shot anyone would want under those circumstances.
[ 01-31-2016, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: SCWC ]
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boomdaddy
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Member # 2644
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posted 01-31-2016 01:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SCWC:
How do you know that. I saw the game too and I have also watched that part again, don't know what you are talking about. There was no time out and Cal was trusting Ulis to make the right play which he normally does. Why would we be taking a three point shot when we did not need too, that in itself would have been a bad play call. We were 1 for 13 in the second half from three point land, not exactly the shot anyone would want under those circumstances.
Nothing beats a dunk, but there is nothing wrong with having a shooter try a three for a game winner, if they are coming off a screen and are open. I would much rather have an open two with a chance to get fouled than try a contested three, but an open three from a good shooter is a whole different story.
Posts: 8791 | From: paris, ky | Registered: Mar 2006
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PaulCat
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Member # 513
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posted 01-31-2016 01:40 PM
Murray was wide open for a three when Ulis lost the ball. It didn't look to me like Ulis was trying to make a specific play - it looked like he just lost the ball. It happens. I would've liked to see Murray get a chance to shoot that three. I told my brother and nephew before the game that Murray was gonna hit a three at the buzzer to win. I wish that prediction had come true.
Posts: 10345 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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chattacat
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Member # 1431
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posted 01-31-2016 02:11 PM
Glad someone mentioned Murray, why didn't he get the ball more the whole game. We have two good shooters, Ulis and Murray. Get the ball to Murray for crying out loud.
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PaulCat
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Member # 513
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posted 01-31-2016 02:27 PM
It kind of looked like they were keying on Murray. He's a heck of a player. If you can shut him down you have a greater chance of winning. That was probably their game plan on defense.
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michigankat
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Member # 2775
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posted 01-31-2016 02:51 PM
The play was to go to the middle and either Tyler would take the shot or Murray would go down to the corner. I know..Anyway.. It did not work..
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Posts: 454 | From: Birmingham, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2007
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 01-31-2016 03:30 PM
Paulcat, you and I saw the same thing. Murray was not guarded in his normal three point shooting position when Ulis lost the ball. He does not shoot a lot of three's from the corner, prefers to be along an area almost opposite the free throw line for his three point shots. Ulis played a heck of a game, he just did not get the ball to an open Murray and lost the ball, that is all a part of the game.
The score was tied 76 all when the turnover occured, a three or two either one would have won the game for us. With the way Kansas were clogging up the middle, the pass to Murray who was open would have been a better outcome, at least we would have got a shot at the basket.
[ 01-31-2016, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: SCWC ]
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michigankat
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Member # 2775
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posted 01-31-2016 03:55 PM
SCWC..
If you look after the turn over Tyler yelled at Murray. That is a good indication of Murray's lack of feel for the game. He will continue to grow and learn the feel for the game. Tyler on the other hand has an excellent feel for the game and was mad a Murray for not moving down. The outcome will be different next time . I have no doubt.
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Tiptree
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Member # 844
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posted 01-31-2016 04:35 PM
Cal said that once Derek was hobbled by fouls, Kansas went to a triangle-and-two, with man-to-man coverage on Ullis and Murray, and three defenders clogging up the paint. It worked.
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Tiptree
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 01-31-2016 04:57 PM
I just looked at the tape one more time, Murray is wide open in three point shooting area, Ulis tried to split two defenders, Murray's man had left him to double on Ulis causing the turnover. Murray was in place for the shot and no defender near him. Tyler did say something to Murray after he turned over the ball but I figured it had something to do with what they were going to do on defense. Murray was definitely open in his favorite three point shooting location. ,Regardless of where Murray would have been located on the floor, Ulis would more than likely still had that turnover, a rarety for him. It is obvious no play was called and Ulis was to make something happen which is the way it should have been, he just lost the ball, that happens in this game. If Ulis blamed Murray for his turnover he was wrong, he had no one to blame but himself.
There is not a player on the team that I would rather have the ball in their hand in this kind of situation than Ulis, he is a winnner.
The loss of Willis shows the value of having a 4 man that can shoot from the outside, Willis fouling out did take a lot of options off he table for us.
[ 01-31-2016, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: SCWC ]
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 01-31-2016 08:33 PM
two things - the triangle and two is very effective when trying to shut down two people by face guarding and the other three defensive playing in the paint. Since we had no bigs it was a great defense and GACAT that answers ur question. Heck we use it at the on my H S team face quard the two best and play zone in the paint.
Ray imo generally all teams have a transition offense (off a make or a miss) where each player has an assigned spot to run to. I am sure Murray shud have gone str to the corner then back to the wing if his man comes to guard him in the corner. THe idea is to spread the court. Ulis had nothing going inside so he had to try to get it to Murry who is our best shooter imo but his man (and Murry's) did not allow either to get free and Ulis just lost the handle. anyway that is what I saw..
(p.s. in transition generally there is no set play just get to your spots and let ur 1 guard find u. I bet they do that 100 times a day in practice).
[ 01-31-2016, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
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ukcatfannfl
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Bama Cat
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Member # 153
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posted 01-31-2016 09:42 PM
I believe we tryed several times at the end of the game to drive it into the paint with the one guy on Ulis and 2 of the guys in the paint also converging on him. No way was he going to get thru that mess. But I'm still betting Cal wanted him to drive it thru. His best chance would have been to pull up and take his floater.
Posts: 14169 | From: berea, ky, usa | Registered: Sep 1999
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 02-01-2016 06:01 AM
Ed, I certainly know what you are talking about, coached for years and we certainly had tons of situation plays in our offense to run depending on time, score etc. We win as a team and lose as a team and we came up short against Kansas. I was still very proud of the way our kids competed, they can certainly hold their heads high after such an effort. The foul situation really hurt us.
[ 02-01-2016, 06:04 AM: Message edited by: SCWC ]
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 02-01-2016 01:29 PM
Bama that is what a triangle and two does exactly, as the bigs converge on whomever gets to the paint!
Bama says"
"the one guy on Ulis and 2 of the guys in the paint also converging on him. No way was he going to get thru that mess."
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ukcatfannfl
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Trey Ball
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Member # 332
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posted 02-01-2016 02:01 PM
Ulis definitely thought Murray was going to be in the corner, but even if he was in the corner the pass was not going towards the corner, it landed a good 4 feet on the end line towards the goal.
That being said that turnover was completely on Ulis. He has to know and see where the players are on the court, because Murray being on the wing is also an acceptable option IMO.
As SCWC stated earlier, Ulis over penetrated into traffic and that was the issue. I would have preferred Ulis, to just isolate his man and shoot the pull up which he had done very effectively all night.
I also think Ulis was gassed. I think it hit him around the 5 minute mark left in regulation. I'm usually in the camp these kids don't get tired, but in that environment and that intense of a game I think it got to Tyler.
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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.
redbone
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 02-01-2016 02:35 PM
"As SCWC stated earlier, Ulis over penetrated into traffic and that was the issue. I would have preferred Ulis, to just isolate his man and shoot the pull up which he had done very effectively all night."
With respect I disagree: Ulis was face guarded so doubt if he was going to "isolate" anyone. Only look he would get is what he had - any drives in the lane/paint would have been doubled as the 3 defenders are playing a loose "help side" zone defense. (Self made it clear earlier that he was not going to allow Murry and Ulis to beat them) His best option imo as you pointed out was to get the ball to Murray for a shot and Murray failed to get to the corner allowing his man (the other "and 2" man) to basically guard both Ulis and Murray with Ulis having his own "2" man on himL..
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ukcatfannfl
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 02-01-2016 02:50 PM
Just read this on KSR - perhaps it explains the triangle and two better than I.
On Saturday, one way Kansas was able to slow Kentucky down in the second half was the triangle-and-two defense, a hybrid of man-to-man and zone. Bill Self’s squads are famous for using the junk defense, which helped them shut down Harrison Barnes and Reggie Bullock to win the 2012 Midwest Regional. On Saturday, Frank Mason and Davonte Graham played man-to-man against Tyler Ulis and Jamal Murray, while Kansas’ other three defenders created a triangle zone in the post. Late in the game, the triangle-and-two forced a tired Tyler Ulis to make some uncharacteristic poor decisions, and on today’s SEC Coaches Teleconference, John Calipari said he expects to see more of it from now on, including tomorrow night in Knoxville.
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ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8771 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
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Trey Ball
Administrator
Member # 332
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posted 02-01-2016 03:45 PM
Ed,
No problem with disagreeing. I don't like Ulis penetrating in that situation. He had freed himself for a jumper to give UK a two point lead just a minute prior. I just think that was the better option. Or let Murray have the ball in his hands to force a jumper. I would have preferred whomever brought the ball down to have taken the shot the way Kansas was guarding.
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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.
redbone
Posts: 11568 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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SCWC
Player
Member # 2464
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posted 02-01-2016 06:31 PM
I too was wanting Ulis to take that last shot since he was the player with the ball in his hands and 9 seconds to go with a tied score. I trust Ulis as our shooter in that kind of situation more than anyone else on the team, option two being Murray. I agree with Trey, with time, score and situation, Tyler could have gotten a shot off had he not over penetrated. He is human, the kid is a winner and that play did not cost us the game. We had five more minutes to play even with the turnover but just did not have the front line players to finish the job.
Self does a good job of disguising his junk defense, I did not pick it up in the live broadcast and neither did Mike Pratt or Tom Leach. I did see it until I watched the tape replay.
And I will not change my opinion that Murray was where he wanted to be, his favorite three point shooting spot on the floor, not from the corner but from a point just below the free throw line extended. I guess we will never know. We will all just have to agree to disagree on this topic, on to the Tennessee game tomorrow night.
I too think Ulis was totally gassed. 45 minutes of intense action like that had to take its toll on him. Hopefully now that Hawkins is back playing we can get Ulis some breaks so he does not have to go the full 40 minutes. Cal had substituted Hawkins for Briscoe while Kansas were shooting the free throw just in case it came down to a foul situation, knowing we were going to be on offense with with Kansas behind one or the score tied. The substitution came when Ellis missed the first free throw.
[ 02-01-2016, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: SCWC ]
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