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Topic: Coach of the year.
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PaulCat
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Member # 513
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posted 03-24-2015 12:20 PM
This is kind of funny. Virginia won the ACC but failed to win the ACC tournament. Then they bow out of the NCAA in the second round by a #7 seed. I cannot even guess as the criteria they use to select Coach of the Year.
Posts: 10324 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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catmandoo
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Member # 1284
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posted 03-24-2015 12:28 PM
handy, great article and makes the award biased at best. It isn't even fair to coach Bennett as he has to know he wasn't deserving of the award. They ought to know they should never give these awards out until the season is over as this is the time where the best coach's separate themselves from all the others.
[ 03-24-2015, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: catmandoo ]
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http://www.ukfightsong.com/
Posts: 186359 | From: st. augustine florida 32092 | Registered: Mar 2001
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blue hoot
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Member # 398
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posted 03-24-2015 12:49 PM
Awards shouldn't be handed out until the end of the tournament. That's just stupid!
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UNC-HEELS
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Member # 2523
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posted 03-24-2015 12:50 PM
It is a fact the UK has had a stellar season. It is a fact that UK has a great team this year, though I do not think this team even with its record is in the top 3 of UK teams from the past.
UK is a great defensive team that should create envy of any program.
However, with that said, if there was an award for best college recruiter, Cal would win it hands down.
But...there are IMO a couple of things working against Cal and UK here.
ONE...probably the biggest argument you will hear...Cal should be 40 and 0 because look what he has on his roster...6 players that could easily go to the NBA come draft day.
With that kind of talent UK better win and win a lot. It is the same story that Coach K and at times Dean Smith were hit with...they have so much talent "IT is expected they WILL and SHOULD win.
Is that fair? Probably not, but it has been the case with K and Smith before.
With the depth and talent UK has this year, you will get the discussion that if you give for example, UVA that same talent or MSU or basically any other Div I coach the results are not likely to change much. Examples of prior teams, Houston 83, UNLV 90 or the UCLA teams of the 60's.
UVA had a squad of 3- 4star players, that's it. MSU, pretty much the same.
It will be said that Bennett and UVA in their defense, played in a much tougher conference, with less talent and achieved on a "higher level" taking all this into account,with so called less "rated" talent, than Cal and UK.
So given that, Bennett did more with less.
Is it fair? Maybe not, is Tony Bennett getting coach of the year undeserved, absolutely not. Even Mike Brey of Notre Dame would have been logical. But I am not surprised that Cal did not get COY based on past examples of like situations.
[ 03-24-2015, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: UNC-HEELS ]
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BlueCollarMan
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Member # 2114
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posted 03-24-2015 01:43 PM
Let's not forget, Heels, while our players our good, our best player is the only one that was NOT a McD All-American. His development has a lot to do with Cal!
Fred
Posts: 6815 | From: The Best College Sports Town in America . . .ha, ha. | Registered: Oct 2003
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UNC-HEELS
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Member # 2523
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posted 03-24-2015 03:02 PM
Bluecollarman,
Not saying Cal is not developing any players...the point is the "talent load"
Dean did the same, he took average players and turned them into AA's when it was all said and done. The fact he recruited top notch talent over the years, he was "expected" to win, and when he did, it was no big deal.
IMO Dean should have had a few more COY's than he had, but the perception was, with the talent he got, it put him in a position to be overlooked.
Same here with Cal. He has so much talent on one team that he is and was expected to win before the season ever started.
It happens, as I said to both K and Dean, and I would say if we looked we would find other such examples.
Unfortunately, maybe "deserve" has nothing to do with it as much as "perception." Just an opinion of course but sometimes that seems the way it is, right or wrong.
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PaulCat
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Member # 513
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posted 03-24-2015 03:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by UNC-HEELS:
ONE...probably the biggest argument you will hear...Cal should be 40 and 0 because look what he has on his roster...6 players that could easily go to the NBA come draft day.
Heels, there have been many teams that were loaded since 1976 - especially a few Carolina teams - yet every single one of them has failed to go undefeated. I don't care what sport or what era, going undefeated is almost humanly impossible in this day and age. To say at the beginning of the year that this UK team SHOULD go 40-0 is just a huge overstatement. Cal has hands down done an incredible coaching job this year. And in my opinion, better than any other coach in the business.
By the way, didn't Dook also start this season with 9 McDonald's All-Americans? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 10324 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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boomdaddy
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Member # 2644
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posted 03-24-2015 04:00 PM
What would Calipati rather have, another national title or some stupid award voted on by some hacks that have never coached a game?
Posts: 8791 | From: paris, ky | Registered: Mar 2006
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boomdaddy
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Member # 2644
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posted 03-24-2015 04:05 PM
By the way, I would venture to say that most Amerricans thought that American Sniper was the best movie of the year. Which movie won the Oscar? Doesn't matter and don't care.
Who won coach of the year? Doesnt matter what some jake legs voted for. I just know that I am happy that my team has the best coach in college basketball. Go Cats!
[ 03-24-2015, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: boomdaddy ]
Posts: 8791 | From: paris, ky | Registered: Mar 2006
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 03-24-2015 04:24 PM
quote:
It is a fact the UK has had a stellar season. It is a fact that UK has a great team this year, though I do not think this team even with its record is in the top 3 of UK teams from the past.
I've followed UK basketball for 60 + years and to say this team is not in the top 3 of UK teams of the past is pure ignorance of UK basketball. Hell, IMO, they may be in the top 3 college basketball teams that ever played the game including teams that played in your revered ACC.
Of course I have a UK bias just like you have a UNC and ACC bias. As always, you will come back and say you have no bias.
You frost my ass heels. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
My hopes is that by adding the smiley face the mods will let me get by with that.
[ 03-24-2015, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posts: 5379 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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UNC-HEELS
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Member # 2523
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posted 03-24-2015 04:51 PM
Handycat,
Sorry, but IMO Wall and that group, was a much better than this group. Also the SEC was a bit stronger then as well.
I also think the 78 team with Givens was a better team than this one.
Problem is if you want to call it a problem, is UK is not what you would call an "offensive jaugernaut" however they do not have to be because of their defense and depth.
Don't get me wrong, I am not taking anything away from UK, they are deserving of their accolades and anyone that would argue that is ignorant of college basketball, but having an opinion that this team is not "overall" as great as some of the past UK teams, is not being ignorant.
Uk has had the luxury of not actually being pushed all that much by the fellow SEC teams. There were no other powers in the SEC this year. If UK was in a close game, my feeling is it was because they were playing more to the level of their competition instead of the other team actually being talented enough to push UK.
And we can go back an forth all day long about the college game not being as good as it once was, you do not see the power teams the game has known much any longer. Simply kids are not sticking around 3 and four years like they did during the old days.
UK is the best of the best for this period in time. I just happen to believe there are other UK teams that were overall better and more complete than this UK team. I have followed the game a good number of years as well and I do not see any teams from the past few years that would rank with the power teams of the 90's 80's and even some in the 70's. The game has changed so much since those days.
Seriously, I think Wall and company would win the best out of seven against this current group. That does not mean I do not think this UK team is talented or worthy of their position or laurels.
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Trey Ball
Administrator
Member # 332
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posted 03-24-2015 05:47 PM
UNCHEELS,
How much do you want to bet that if Coach K was 36-0 with his 9 McDers that he would have been the UNANIMOUS coach of the year.
Zero doubt in my mind.
Cal not being the unanimous choice is laughable.
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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.
redbone
Posts: 11542 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 03-24-2015 05:57 PM
Goose and teammates Roby, Philips, Lee, and under class men Macy and Shidler was one of my "favorite" teams as well as favorite players. Did you ever see them play? Have you ever saw any clips of this team? Would you know Givens if I posted a picture of him? Did you know that none of them had any serious impacts as pros? I loved that team far more than today's team but you can not make the comparison talent wise.
Yes, Givens was a great player, the best red head to ever play for UK and was the leader of a very good team. Just not better than today's talent or team. At this point in the season they had lost two games.
I'll kindly say we will just have to disagree and leave it at that.
Posts: 5379 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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catmandoo
Player
Member # 1284
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posted 03-24-2015 06:22 PM
Here is a picture of Goose.
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http://www.ukfightsong.com/
Posts: 186359 | From: st. augustine florida 32092 | Registered: Mar 2001
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 03-24-2015 06:29 PM
Dang, I thought he was a red head. Next thing you know your going to tell me Roby was white.
Posts: 5379 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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PaulCat
Player
Member # 513
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posted 03-24-2015 06:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by UNC-HEELS:
Uk has had the luxury of not actually being pushed all that much by the fellow SEC teams. There were no other powers in the SEC this year.
That may be a valid statement, although SEC fans know how hard it is to play at Vandy, South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia and Florida. Those are by no means cupcakes.
But pushing that aside, how about Louisville, UCLA and UNC (three teams in the Sweet 16)? We beat those teams by a combined 61 points! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Throw in the whuppins we put on Kansas, Texas, Providence and Arkansas (twice). These are NCAA tournament teams that we sent packing. I think all of these victories more than covers that fact that the SEC is not considered a loaded conference.
Posts: 10324 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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UNC-HEELS
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Member # 2523
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posted 03-24-2015 06:35 PM
Handycat, I did see Givens play. I also remember watching him go off on the 1978 Duke team of Gemenski, Denard, Gene Banks and company. Best I remember that night Goose Givens racked up something like 44 points.
That was a really good team with more "fundamentally" schooled players.
Treyball, as I said prior, there were a couple of times I thought Dean Smith was overlooked simply because of the talent he had on his roster.
I'm sorry but I do not believe in a "media conspiracy" against UK. I simply believe since the very beginning of the season everyone was already biased to the fact that UK not only was the best and most talented team in the country, but obviously the hands on favorite to win, all based on UK's assembly of elite highschool all stars.
With that I still believe as I stated, this had some impact on the decision. UK was expected to be there, to be this good on talent alone, UVA in comparison had nowhere near the talent of UK and yet in probably (as the sweet 16 is bearing out) playing in one of if not the toughest conference in the country was 29-2 and ranked #2 behind UK for a good stretch during the regular season...Bennett in that regard may have been considered doing more with less. That's just an opinion of course!
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Trey Ball
Administrator
Member # 332
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posted 03-24-2015 06:45 PM
No conspiracy theory on my part.
I'm sorry to say, but I watched Virigina play this year and I'm not saying this for the first time because they are out of the tournament. I was never impressed by them. Not one single time, I said it on here all year long. Them going 29-2 in the ACC pretty much seals the deal in my mind that UK would have been 31-0 in ACC as well. The bottom half of the ACC is just as bad as the the bottom half of the SEC, if not worse. The ACC has 5 above average teams and via seed (other than NC State) have advanced to where they should be. We will see how many ACC teams end up in the Final Four. My guess is Duke and that is it.
Your Dean Smith comment is like comparing Apples and Oranges. Why? Because Dean Smith never coached a North Carolina team to an UNDEFEATED regular season in a MAJOR CONFERENCE. If you can't see the difference in that than you are just blinded by hatred for Cal and UK.
If UK was 30-1, then I'm fine with Bennett or any other coach winning the award. Cal and UK went 31-0. NO TEAM in a MAJOR Conference has done that since 1976. They shouldn't have even had to have taken a vote.
[ 03-24-2015, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]
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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.
redbone
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 03-24-2015 07:06 PM
Dang heels, you are one smart dude. Your birthdate shows as 6/1/75. You were less than three years old when that game was played.
I've heard of folks like you who have total recall but your the first I've ever met. It's a real honor.
Posts: 5379 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 03-24-2015 07:51 PM
quote:
Dang heels, you are one smart dude. Your birthdate shows as 6/1/75. You were less than three years old when that game was played.
I've heard of folks like you who have total recall but your the first I've ever met. It's a real honor. quote:
Handycat, this is one of the best posts I can ever recall seeing on this forum. You have me cracking up every time I read it.
Posts: 17777 | From: Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: Jun 2005
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 03-24-2015 07:53 PM
"By the way, I would venture to say that most Amerricans thought that American Sniper was the best movie of the year. Which movie won the Oscar? Doesn't matter and don't care."
The makeup of Hollywood precludes a movie like American Sniper winning an Oscar imv!
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ukcatfannfl
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UNC-HEELS
Player
Member # 2523
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posted 03-24-2015 08:12 PM
SCWC.....LOL! That is no my true birthdate. I never give out my true birthdate for message boards or any social media.
I do not feel it is necessary for a message board or any social media to ask me for my age, and in the process, I will pick random dates. On the Carolina board I chose 1920 as my birth year.
I will tell you I have been actively following the college game since 1969.
So I have seen my share of games over the years.
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UNC-HEELS
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Member # 2523
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posted 03-24-2015 08:23 PM
Treyball,
What I said was opinion, and IMO I do not believe any team in this modern period including this UK team would beat a UNLV of 90 or a Houston of 83 or a UNC of 82 or the UK team or Wall and company in a 7 game series, not sure they would win in a one game series, but as we know in the college game all things are almost possible.
As for my team, I think the 82 team would win a 7 game series against the 2005 and 2009 UNC teams.
The experience factor was just greater back then.
Again, I am saying I can see why "possibly" Cal did not get the nod. I did not say it "WAS" the reason.
As for UK going undefeated in the ACC, maybe, but very doubtfull. UK had issues in the SEC with lower grade teams at time. That is not something they would have been able to take for granted in the ACC. Maybe they would, but I doubt it seriously. Would they have won the conference outright, odds are, probably, but undefeated, very doubtful.
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Trey Ball
Administrator
Member # 332
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posted 03-24-2015 08:30 PM
But somehow Virginia, who couldn't make it past the first weekend of the Tourney, only managed to lose two. OK. Yeah, I think UK would have gone undefeated easily.
UNC? Check, Louisville? Check?, maybe we get to check Notre Dame off on Saturday, and Duke on April 6th. By the way, every ranked team UK played in the Regular Season lost by Double Digits, other than Louisville who lost by 8 because UK gave them a layup at the end.
I never said this team was better than those teams you mentioned. We are talking about coach of the year for an UNDEFEATED TEAM IN A MAJOR CONFERENCE, not comparing team this UK team to the 1990 UNLV, etc. It is called READING COMPREHENSION. How you don't give the Coach of the Year award to the Head Coach of an undefeated team in a major conference is mind boggling.
As Coach Pitino stated today, “I think that when you’re undefeated and nobody’s beaten you, it’s clear cut who’s Coach of the Year right now.” and he coached in that mighty ACC. You would think he may say Tony Bennett, but see he, as someone who knows the game, understands the accomplishment.
[ 03-24-2015, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]
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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.
redbone
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