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Topic: 4 and 12
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Trey Ball
Administrator
Member # 332
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posted 11-21-2022 09:27 AM
That is UK’s record the last 16 games vs ranked teams. We have become IU basketball. Which means we are irrelevant on the National stage.
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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.
redbone
Posts: 11957 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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ukman
Player
Member # 3032
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posted 11-21-2022 10:03 AM
Wow! I knew it was bad, but didn't realize it was that bad. Someone needs to have a sit down with Cal and point that out. Maybe he'd realize he needs to take a hard look at his coaching philosophy and make some changes.
Posts: 5900 | From: georgia | Registered: Jan 2009
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ukcatfannfl
Player
Member # 1425
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posted 11-21-2022 10:05 AM
Good info tks
Cal's excuse in the past was that "we are young" and we will get better! That is now "hollow" and no longer applies.
He is just a "bad" coach who refuses to change with the times. When he started the "one and done" he was king until others decided to do the same thing. Coaching then jumps to the forefront and he plain and simple "gets outcoached".
How can we have 1 title since he arrived with the num 1 or 2 class each year? and no FF since 15?
The early games also have a lot to do with "seeding" for April and we are a 5 seed or so with zero chance to go to the FF.
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ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8775 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
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Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844
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posted 11-21-2022 10:14 AM
Cal is acting as if he is at a mid-major, like UMass or Memphis, but with better players.
Nothing has changed with his coaching style. And I am not impressed with his assistants. Either they are also mediocre, or he micromanages too much.
Cal needs to understand that he works for us, the UK fans, NOT for the NBA. He needs to be more humble, more flexible, smarter. He just spews one-liners and we get more of the same.
Yeah, I am done too. He had his chances, but he never really cared about us, the fans. When he said "You people are crazy", that was not a complement.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 13747 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000
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handycat
Player
Member # 2323
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posted 11-21-2022 10:51 AM
Cal may be a so, so in game coach but he is one of the best recruiters in college basketball (few would deny that) and has represented the University well. My coaching experience is rather limited but I did coach my son’s 4th grade team and guided them to a 3 and 7 record. The school would not allow me to recruit 6th graders or we would have been much better IMO. So, there is that, which should offer some weight to my opinion.
I realize this is a very unpopular in UK circles these days, but I will stand with our Hall of Fame Coach. My son thinks I’m off base with this opinion. I taught the boy everything he knows and that alone should nullify his opinion. Cal has one of the best records among active coaches in basketball and has the 2nd or 3rd best UK winning percentage’s. Rick the Dick may be slightly ahead of him, not sure. No matter, character matters to me.
Are his best days behind him? Maybe, but I’m not willing to take the chance of getting another Billy Clyde.I guess we could ask him if he would be interested in coming back. 😄 Now those were bad days.
[ 11-21-2022, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posts: 5575 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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Old Norm
Administrator
Member # 1482
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posted 11-21-2022 01:57 PM
Billy Clyde was a nightmare, IMO.
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Pray For Our Country!
Posts: 36283 | From: Western KY | Registered: Aug 2001
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Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844
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posted 11-21-2022 02:03 PM
Luke 12:48
"Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more."
I think my point is not that I want another Billie Clyde, nor do I regret having Cal give it a go. It is that he is basically doing the same as he did at Memphis, only with so much more resources. He had a 78.5% winning percentage at Memphis; he is at 78.3% at UK. He does indeed win a lot of games. But how well does he do when it counts -- the NCAA tournament?
I think it is a big clue when he talks about how many NBA players he has "sent", not how many championships he has. Did Pitino do that? Hall? Rupp? Nope. They did not focus on sending players to the NBA; they focused on winning championships. They understood that in the college game, that is what matters. Somehow, Cal has hoodwinked us to believe that sending players to the NBA should be the benchmark, and we have bought into it. We shrug and say "I guess we are doing OK" because we beat a lot of weak teams and generate some new millionaires each year.
I really don't care how many NBA players we generate; that is a useful metric of the calibre of player, but unless those players contribute to the actual metric that matters -- final fours, championships, you know, the things we hang banners for, then it is superfluous.
And, Hall of Fame is a backwards-looking award; he deserves it for what he has accomplished. But, we fans are forward-looking. We wonder when we will once again be a dominant force in college basketball, a genuine threat to win the championship year after year. I don't think we can honestly say that we are any more, because Cal is looking elsewhere for his fame.
In businesses, there is a notion that a CEO's incentives should be aligned with those of the shareholders, that he should care about building the business into a success in its field. I doubt anybody would want to keep a CEO around that was focused on making a DIFFERENT business successful. Cal is more focused on the NBA than on UK. He has no incentive to change, because nobody is holding him accountable. He is a HOF coach! He has a lifetime contract! Blah blah.
But, he isn't innovating, adapting, improving. He is content with his system because it allows himi to achieve his goal.
Time fo a new CEO for UK Basketball, inc.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 13747 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000
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Trey Ball
Administrator
Member # 332
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posted 11-21-2022 03:49 PM
I’m just tired of all the same old excuses. We haven’t practiced, we are young, you don’t have to make all the shots, but you can’t miss them all, it came down to execution of a few plays, etc, etc, etc.
All other teams face the same issues and their coaches work to figure them out and don’t come to a press conference saying the same thing after every loss.
The number one reason Kentucky misses shots is because they take bad and contested shots because of his putrid looking so called offense. Also, this is Kentucky…….every game against ranked teams should not come down to one or two plays of execution. This became evident to me about mid year through the 2014-15 season when games would come down to the last possession when Cal could put the most talented team on the court and the second most talented team on the court and the opponent would have the 3rd most talented team on the court and games were still possession by possession.
Cal also puts some of the dumbest combinations on the floor together that I have ever seen. If Wheeler and Toppin were lock down defenders I could see them playing so many minutes, but both are below average defenders and both are below average shooters. They should play 10 minutes a game tops with this roster.
I would be playing Wallace/Reeves/Frederick/Livingston/Oscar 30 to 35 minutes a game and spelled by Wheeler/Toppin/Ware/Collins when those guys need a blow.
Collins should be a monster but Cal has no clue how to use him and he wasted his Freshmen season and development by not playing him.
[ 11-21-2022, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]
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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.
redbone
Posts: 11957 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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handycat
Player
Member # 2323
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posted 11-21-2022 05:34 PM
I understand what you guys are saying. I really do. I also find Cal and his coaching very frustrating at times. I also realize that I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to understanding the ins and outs of basketball.
Then I look at “two national runner ups, one national title, 4 final fours, an undefeated regular season, 34 wins in a single season, multiple SEC titles etc”. I may not have all that exactly right, but it’s close. Yes, that’s all in the past but it earns my loyalty for a little longer.
But that’s just me and I understand when you guys, my son and many other UK fans want him gone. I’m just not there yet.
[ 11-21-2022, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posts: 5575 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844
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posted 11-21-2022 05:44 PM
Starting Reeves/Frederick/Wallace/Tshiewbe/whoever won't change a thing if we run the same offense. Reeves and Frederick won't get open looks. Tshiewbe will get his 18-and-15, but we will still lose.
The change needed isn't the roster, it is the system. Either Cal is forced to change, or Cal is shown the door. For his entire tenure at UK, Cal has been all about PR, pros, and "team building" in the psychological sense. But what about "team building" in the REAL sense -- developing skills and systems that lead to success?
There is NO EXCUSE for going 4-and-12 against ranked opponents with the quality of players we can put on the floor. There is NO EXCUSE for not even getting a whiff of the final four for 6 years with the quality of players we can put on the floor. And there is NO EXCUSE for losing in the first round to a 15 seed with the players he had last year.
This is what I mean by "to him who is given much, much is expected". Statistically, the last six years have been really dismal, given the quality of players he has at his disposal. Yes, he gets them here, but their eyes are on just surviving and getting the fat NBA check next year.
Cal, change your priorities to win championships. Run you program like it is a college dynasty, not an NBA pipeline. Or, move on.
[ 11-21-2022, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 13747 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000
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Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844
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posted 11-21-2022 05:57 PM
Yes, those sound pretty impressive, Handy.
But, the banner-worthy successes, those four final fours and one championship, all happened in his first six years.
The last six years?
ZERO final fours.
Two elite eight exits.
One sweet sixteen exit.
One second-round exit.
One first-round exit.
One year we didn't even merit an invitation.
That sounds more like a second-tier basketball school than UK to me. The only thing we can take pride in is having top-3 recruiting classes year after year, and having more players in the NBA than any other school. But those recruiting classes haven't bought us much, and I don't give a rats patootie about how many active NBA players came from UK.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 13747 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000
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ukcatfannfl
Player
Member # 1425
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posted 11-21-2022 06:23 PM
In short it is all about him and HIS players - if UK happens to benefit then ok but make no mistake UK is LAST on his list of priorities.
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ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8775 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
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PaulCat
Player
Member # 513
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posted 11-21-2022 08:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tiptree:
The last six years?
ZERO final fours.
Two elite eight exits.
One sweet sixteen exit.
One second-round exit.
One first-round exit.
One year we didn't even merit an invitation.
Don't forget:
- He relinquished our crown of winningest team in college basketball
- He led us to lose our record of nation's longest streak with a 3-point FG
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
[ 11-21-2022, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: PaulCat ]
Posts: 10439 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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Bama Cat
Player
Member # 153
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posted 11-22-2022 10:28 PM
Hmmmmm? Something tells me there is a good bit of displeasure in Big Blue Land? Maybe it's the type of rowboats Cal is using? They all seem to have several holes in them. Plus the guys seem to lose the oars most frequently until they are far behind half way in the race to the finish line!! Man, I miss Redbone's comments at a time like this. RIP.
Posts: 14464 | From: berea, ky, usa | Registered: Sep 1999
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