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Topic: Do We Really Have What It Takes?
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Bama Cat
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Member # 153
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posted 01-31-2009 05:32 PM
After todays game I think tha's the question that needs to be on everyones mind. If we can't beat Ole Miss and can't beat SC at home, are we really as good, or can we get as good, as we all were thinking we were? If you look at what we've done in the SEC in 7 games I am afraid we got our hopes too high for this season. Sure we played some good games but you can count them on one hand. The rest we just won where we should have clobbered some of those teams. Look where we are right now. 16-6. Much better than after 24 games last year, 12-10. The only difference is in the strength of schedule, we had more lower level teams on the schedule this year.
Look at what we have coming up:
MS St and FL at home. Are we lookig at a 4 game losing streak?
At AR and Vandy. Two of the weaker teams left but they could easily extend that losing streak to 6 ames.
Then comes TN at home and then down to SC. TN wants some revenge and SC probably thinks they know how to beat us now. Could it e 8 straight losses? That would mean a record of 16-14.
Finally LSU & GA at home. I would think we could beat GA again but LSU could be a different ball game. Maybe we split and are 17-15.
And the last ame at FL would be possibly our toughest game of the season. 17-16????
If you have figured out where I'm headed with this you are a realist. If you haven't I guess you might be called an Optimist, Believer, Faithful, or maybe Blinded. You see if these kids don't hurry up and start thinking better about their passing, driving, dribbling, shooting and most of all just thinking before they react this season could be over long before most of the world thought it would be over.
No NCAA Tourney and maybe not even the NIT. what's more they could be responsible for the greatest failure in UK history after the mid season point. I hope this doesn't happen and they decide to play abetter brand of ball starting on Tuesday.
These last two ball games should never have been this close to lose them at the end of the game. either that or I am being brainwashed by Billy G's recruiting. It looks like next year is going to be the year but when it gets here its the same old story. When we run off another 5 game winning streak maybe I can believe we won't have another double digit losing streak before the regular schedule runs out.
[ 01-31-2009, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Bama Cat ]
Posts: 14410 | From: berea, ky, usa | Registered: Sep 1999
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Wildcat Larry
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posted 01-31-2009 07:18 PM
I find myself questioning the ability of this team, and this coach. In addition to very poor decisions on the court, I didn't see any brilliant decisions coming from the bench, either.
Billy Gillispie's quirks are only quirks when the Cats can win. If the Cats can't win, then those quirks suddenly become holes in his coaching abilities. Why, the name of Adolph Rupp, BG refuses to call a timeout when the lead is going down the drain, I do not know.
His subbing patterns are a mystery, but I fear they are as much a mystery to him as they are to us. I'm slowly beginning the question just how long the maverick coach will be around. I'm immensely unimpressed with BG's coaching at this point.
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That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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ukman
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posted 01-31-2009 07:23 PM
I agree with your comments about the coaching. He is a mystery to me. I dont' know if he is crazy or a genius. for the sake of all Cat fans I hope he is a misunderstood genius.
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catlogic15
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Member # 1227
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posted 01-31-2009 07:30 PM
A two game losing streak, lack of progress by "heralded" freshmen, and no real progress in 1+ years is not genius.
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 01-31-2009 07:38 PM
I said in another thread that if two things happen maybe even one we will do ok.
1. Find a third scorer - give the big two 40-50 and get beat if we dont find a 12-14 point guy. SC had a 15 point guy to go along with their guards.
Harrelson played good -IMO he could be the one or heck even slone - he can shoot we know.
2. turnovers - cut down to 12-14 a game instead of 20+ many unforced.
Do them both and we will be really good - do one of the two and we could still be good.
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ukcatfannfl
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ukman
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posted 01-31-2009 07:46 PM
I am not saying he is a genius, but my hope is that somehow there is a method to his ways, and that at the end of the year he will look like a genius. I just want to see improvement and consistency.
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WildcatFanatic
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posted 01-31-2009 07:53 PM
Did anyone notice what looked like coach Gillispie trying to snub S.C. coach Darrin Horn after the game? Coach Horn had to reach out and grab his arm to get his attention and shake his hand. Isn't it considered common courtesy to shake hands with the opposing coach after the game? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe something else was going on, but I've seen him do it after other losses too.
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ukman
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posted 01-31-2009 07:59 PM
I noticed it too. I know it was a tough loss, but you still show class. He just doesn't seem to come off to good in many situations. I don't know the man so I will not question his character, but he could use some help on the pr side. On the other hand, did you notice Horn screaming to his players to shake hands. They must have been celebrating. I thought that showed class. Shake hands with your opponent that just lost a heartbreaker first, then celebrate.
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Wildtut
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posted 01-31-2009 08:00 PM
is there such a thing as a one way ticket back to TEXAS if not it may be comming.
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I was a young wildcat when i was born i be and old wildcat when i die
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prophet
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posted 01-31-2009 08:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by WildcatFanatic:
Did anyone notice what looked like coach Gillispie trying to snub S.C. coach Darrin Horn after the game? Coach Horn had to reach out and grab his arm to get his attention and shake his hand. Isn't it considered common courtesy to shake hands with the opposing coach after the game? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe something else was going on, but I've seen him do it after other losses too.
Could be Gillispie has a long memory regarding the rather unkind words Horn had for him coming into the SEC.
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"The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." --Thomas Jefferson
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ukman
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posted 01-31-2009 08:08 PM
What words?
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Bama Cat
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posted 01-31-2009 08:41 PM
I'm not sure I know what those words were either. I can see his subbing pattern now. He plays Liggins in and out for Porter depending on how long they are in there before they start falling apart. Miller relieves Harris and they stay for a while if they are playing well. Harrelson gets in for Stevenson when he gets in foul trouble or gets winded. Then Stevenson comes back in for Patterson maybe once during the game. Galloway gets in sometimes for Meeks and once in a great while for Harris. Stewart came in today for Stevenson because Harrelson had already been in I believe. That's about it for us, 9 players do most of the work except for stewart sometimes. I can only see a small amount of progress in the bench but that is mainly due to PT. I still firmly believe that Billy wants to have a 7 man rotation if possible. Maybe next year he will have the experience we need. What's the chances we would ever see Patterson, Stevenson and Orton on the floor together?
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samwise2206
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posted 01-31-2009 08:47 PM
As time goes on Billy G. shows himself to be a rude, crass man who cannot make in game adjustments. He believes that if the team plays real hard they will win. But when the other team is plating just as hard but has a coach who adjusts his strategy as the game progresses you end up on the losing end. And i saw the snub of coach Horn but in defense of Billy G maybe he just had a bad hangover coupled with getting out coached again.
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PaulCat
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posted 02-01-2009 12:54 AM
I don't blame the coach. After all, this is a team with no point guard talent and only two players who can really score. It's hard to win consistently when this is the makeup of your team.
Name the players on this team who would start for any current top-10 team. It's all about the talent, and we just don't have it.
[ 02-01-2009, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: PaulCat ]
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SlumcatMillionaire
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posted 02-01-2009 01:43 AM
All of these comments about a lack of talent would be true if we were talking about losses to Louisville or UNC. We currently don't have the horses to compete with the top teams in the nation, but that doesn't explain the last two losses. Just like with Ole Miss, USC is a team stocked full of Ramon Harris- level talent. A role player for us, he'd be one of their more talented players. One guy (Downey) was a top 50 recruit, but the rest of the team mirrors the talent potential of guys like AJ Stewart and Josh Harrellson. They simply don't have the talent to match up with our top guys. If other schools were able to cherry-pick guys from UK and USC, we'd obviously lose the first two picks and probably 5 of the first 6. So once again, "talent" may be a good excuse why we lost to one Carolina a few months ago, but don't use it as the reason why we lost to another Carolina today.
[ 02-01-2009, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: SlumcatMillionaire ]
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PaulCat
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posted 02-01-2009 02:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SlumcatMillionaire:
Just like with Ole Miss, USC is a team stocked full of Ramon Harris- level talent. A role player for us, he'd be one of their more talented players.
What you don't realize is that UK is a team stocked full of Ramon Harris-level talent. And while he is a role player, he is also a starter. Outside of Patterson and Meeks, everyone else is a role player because they don't have the talent to be anything more.
A very good point guard will make a bunch of Ramon Harris-type players a lot better than they are. Having no point guard will make people like Meeks and Patterson less effective. You can't seriously believe that outside of Patterson and Meeks, our talent is still better than that of USC, Ole Miss, etc? No way. If it was, then our team wouldn't throw stupid passes every other time down court, or dribble the ball off their foot all the time, or let an easy pass go right thru their hands, or get called for travelling every other time they touch the ball. Trust me, we don't have the talent.
Why was BCG successful at Texas A&M? Acie Law. A good point guard can go a long way.
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SlumcatMillionaire
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posted 02-01-2009 05:40 AM
Whenever I read comments on here that contain phrases like "Outside of Patterson and Meeks", I think the statements sound as meaningless as ones that could have been made beginning "Outside of Jordan and Pippen". Y'all keep comparing the talent levels of our and other teams by first casually tossing away the two most talented guys on the floor. To answer your question, no, I don't believe if you took Meeks and Patterson off our team that we'd have more talent than those teams. I also think if you casually toss away Angelina Jolie and Jennifer Anniston from the list of Brad Pitt's conquests, the talent level of thay group doesn't seem so great either.
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rmckenz
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posted 02-01-2009 06:47 AM
quote:
A very good point guard will make a bunch of Ramon Harris-type players a lot better than they are. Having no point guard will make people like Meeks and Patterson less effective.
I think this is the most accurate assessment of where we stand with Coach Gillispie. Having no point guard with any experience or significant skill is a serious flaw in the makeup of the team. I recall last year when Jasper began to come into his own. That was when the Cats began looking like a decent team. Lack of a point guard could also explain why we are having such a high number of turnovers. It could also explain why Coach seems to be turning away from Porter and looking desperately for a player with more potential and athleticism at the Point position.
I’m just trying to find some reason to not give up hope on this Coach. I would hate to see Kentucky go into a Coach-search downward spiral like UCLA did. What I mean is, having to hire three or four unsuccessful coaches and giving each 3 or 4 years to get his act together before we finally find a coach good enough to continue the tradition at Kentucky.
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Max Beasley
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posted 02-01-2009 09:53 AM
The instability and growing pains associated with the pg position are hurting (but thats not the only thing) and there isnt really a quick fix for a guy gaining maturity and experience. I do however believe that Liggins and Miller (and even Gallaway) are making progress. I believe we have what it takes but dont think we are at the point to be able to demonstrate that we have what it takes...hopefully this team continues to progress to the point where they can demonmstrate that......this year!
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Wildcat Larry
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posted 02-01-2009 01:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PaulCat:
I don't blame the coach. After all, this is a team with no point guard talent and only two players who can really score. It's hard to win consistently when this is the makeup of your team.
Is it not the coach's job to see that he has a point guard that can get the job done, an the talent required at other positions. This is BG's second year, not his first. You could make that arguement in year one, but since you and I could see that the UK needed a point guard badly, I think BG could see that, but he didn't go out and get anyone capable of filling that position.
You can't absolve the coach of blame here, I don't think.
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rupps runt65
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posted 02-01-2009 02:04 PM
You either give it to Liggins and live with the consequences and live with the growing pains or try someone else cause Porter is not the person who should be out there. Liggins or Galloway period there his recruits if they cant do it its his problem, they will be the core of the team next year not
porter, let them play.
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Bama Cat
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posted 02-01-2009 02:48 PM
My feeling is that Galloway was picked up for his experience and he hasn't had enough PT to see what he can really do. So he makes a mistake. the other guys are also. He's a junior transfer and if he doesn't start getting a lot more PT the coach is the only one to blame. He hasn't been that much worse than Porter or Liggins.
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PaulCat
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posted 02-01-2009 04:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Wildcat Larry:
quote:
Originally posted by PaulCat:
I don't blame the coach. After all, this is a team with no point guard talent and only two players who can really score. It's hard to win consistently when this is the makeup of your team.
Is it not the coach's job to see that he has a point guard that can get the job done, an the talent required at other positions. This is BG's second year, not his first. You could make that arguement in year one, but since you and I could see that the UK needed a point guard badly, I think BG could see that, but he didn't go out and get anyone capable of filling that position.
You can't absolve the coach of blame here, I don't think.
I ask you to research the current high school players and see what you would have available if you were hired today as the coach of UK (and BCG was hired after the season was over). The top-notch high school seniors and juniors (and even many sophomores) are already gone. What you have left are players like Liggins and Galloway. Trust me, I've looked into this pretty hard. I don't think BCG will have a fully loaded team for at least one more year, maybe two.
As of August, 2008, two of the top sixteen point guards for 2009 haven't signed, and seven of the top fifteen for 2010 are available. Since this was almost six months ago, I would figure these counts are even less now.
[ 02-01-2009, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: PaulCat ]
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Wildcat Larry
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posted 02-01-2009 04:39 PM
Yes, maybe the great point guards were already taken, however, I doubt that all the good point guards were taken. BG did not recruit a point guard for his second class, just Liggins who is NOT a point guard. BG chose to recruit the "athlete", instead of recruiting a point guard. An average point guard would make this team much better, so why not recruit one if you couldn't get a great point guard.
Just my thinking. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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SCWC
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posted 02-01-2009 04:40 PM
BCG was a head coach for five years prior to coming to Kentucky, he should have had inroads to talent in his pipeline that would have wanted to follow him to UK. I am not so sure Coach Gillispie is the master recruiter many seem to think he is. Time will tell.
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SlumcatMillionaire
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posted 02-01-2009 04:54 PM
You make Liggons sound like a walk-on. Only 4 Freshman PGs in the country were higher rated last year, putting him on the same level as some of our top PGs (Ronda was the 5th rated PG in his class). We beat out Memphis and Kansas for his services. He wasn't a "what's left" player. He was a "everybody wants this guy" player.
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Wildcat Larry
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posted 02-01-2009 05:15 PM
But not the point guard that UK needed.
[ 02-01-2009, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Wildcat Larry ]
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That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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PaulCat
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posted 02-01-2009 06:20 PM
As for taking Liggins, he was the best that was available, and Billy got him. As for ratings, maybe they're not as accurate as many think they are. And don't forget, at the end of last year we had a point guard who was making great progress, not throwing too many errant passes every game, not shooting fade away jumpers from fifteen feet, who was making players around him better. But he chose to leave the UK program and transfer to UNLV. Like I said earlier, I won't blame BCG for the makeup of this team.
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ukman
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posted 02-01-2009 06:21 PM
I think Liggins will be a good player by the time he is done here at UK. Alot depends on how well he listens to the coaches and older players. Right now I do not think he is the answer at point. I say give him some time there, but play Galloway more at the point. Our season will continue to go how our point guard play goes. When it has been good the Cats have looked very good, when it's been bad they have looked pretty bad. I just wish coach would play Galloway. If he is not, I don't understand why he even recruited him from Junior College. He should have been getting playing time earlier in the year so he would be ready to take the lead now.
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PaulCat
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posted 02-01-2009 06:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SCWC:
BCG was a head coach for five years prior to coming to Kentucky, he should have had inroads to talent in his pipeline that would have wanted to follow him to UK. I am not so sure Coach Gillispie is the master recruiter many seem to think he is. Time will tell.
We have two recruits coming in next year from Texas.
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PaulCat
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posted 02-01-2009 06:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ukman:
I think Liggins will be a good player by the time he is done here at UK. Alot depends on how well he listens to the coaches and older players. Right now I do not think he is the answer at point. I say give him some time there, but play Galloway more at the point. Our season will continue to go how our point guard play goes. When it has been good the Cats have looked very good, when it's been bad they have looked pretty bad. I just wish coach would play Galloway. If he is not, I don't understand why he even recruited him from Junior College. He should have been getting playing time earlier in the year so he would be ready to take the lead now.
I agree. Galloway is more of a PG than a scorer, and he knows it. Liggins thinks he's a scorer, but so far he hasn't been able to deliver.
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Wildtut
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posted 02-01-2009 07:32 PM
we got 9 games left should we still be trying to find someone who can play, i think it time the coach started to use his sub better, i think he has a problen try to figure out who to play.
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I was a young wildcat when i was born i be and old wildcat when i die
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Bama Cat
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posted 02-01-2009 09:15 PM
Too many people on the bench????
By the way he only has one player coming in from TX next year. Villarino. Orton is from OK, Hood from KY and Pilgrim is from OH
Ross-Miller is from TX in the 10-11 class but I'm nt so sure he is the answer.
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Max Beasley
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posted 02-01-2009 09:40 PM
Jasper leaving hurt and I dont know if that problem is going to be fully rectified this year. If it is it will be because D. Liggins started to get it (which he hasnt yet). He pushes the ball very well, is able to throw over the trap/double team and if he matures sooner (this year) than later (next year or later)it could make all the difference. I think he and Miller both have to get good enough to replace Porter and Harris in the line up and when it happens we'll be a step closer to where we want to be...imo
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catmandoo
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posted 02-02-2009 10:23 AM
Here are the players coach G has signed to play for the cats:
1. Patterson but wouldn't be here if Tubby hadn't been recruiting him since early in his junior year.
2. Legion- left the team on his own accord.
3. Galloway junior college player that see's very little playing time on a team that needs help!
4. Harrellson who seems to be a player that could help this team but get's little playing time for reasons no one seems to have a answer why.
5. DeAndre Liggins a very talented player that coach G isn't getting through too. He still makes the same mistakes he did in his first few minutes of his first game.
6. Darius Miller a great Kentucky recruit who had a hard time adjusting but is becoming a fan favorite and should have a very good career.
7. Matt Pilgrim another junior college player that is inelgible to play this year.
8.Donald Williams-A prep school player who is even another recruit that isn't elgible to play..
I am sure he is a good recruiter but as of yet he hasn't lived up to his recruiting hype. He has 8 players he recruited and signed but other than Patterson only 2 others see a reasonable amount of playing time and to be honest they are not doing as well as many of us thought they would.
I hope he has the courage to weather some losses and stay long enough to get the program on the right track. This is worrisome knowing that he called Texas A&M after his loss to Gardner Web asking if it was possible to come back. I have always thought this could be the reason he never signed his UK contract.
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SCWC
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posted 02-02-2009 10:27 AM
Paulcat, I am well aware of the recruits he has coming in next year. The star of the group is not playing this year because of an injury and he hails from Oklahoma City, Okla, not Texas.
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PaulCat
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posted 02-02-2009 05:01 PM
The two I was referring to are Vilarino and Ross-Miller, however as BamaCat pointed out, Ross-Miller is a 2010 recruit.
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catmandoo
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posted 02-02-2009 05:21 PM
Vilarino is a Texas player that may turn out to be a useful point guard but he is not a high profile recruit at this point. Scout has him as a 3 star and not listed in the top 100 players. He is listed as the number 30 best point guard in the 2009 class.
I would not think he would come in and be a lot of help in his freshman year.
If we lose Patterson and Meeks or even one of them to the NBA we will be in for a rough year as far as UK standards are concerned.
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PaulCat
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posted 02-02-2009 06:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by catmandoo:
Here are the players coach G has signed to play for the cats:
1. Patterson but wouldn't be here if Tubby hadn't been recruiting him since early in his junior year.
2. Legion- left the team on his own accord.
3. Galloway junior college player that see's very little playing time on a team that needs help!
4. Harrellson who seems to be a player that could help this team but get's little playing time for reasons no one seems to have a answer why.
5. DeAndre Liggins a very talented player that coach G isn't getting through too. He still makes the same mistakes he did in his first few minutes of his first game.
6. Darius Miller a great Kentucky recruit who had a hard time adjusting but is becoming a fan favorite and should have a very good career.
7. Matt Pilgrim another junior college player that is inelgible to play this year.
8.Donald Williams-A prep school player who is even another recruit that isn't elgible to play..
I am sure he is a good recruiter but as of yet he hasn't lived up to his recruiting hype. He has 8 players he recruited and signed but other than Patterson only 2 others see a reasonable amount of playing time and to be honest they are not doing as well as many of us thought they would.
I hope he has the courage to weather some losses and stay long enough to get the program on the right track. This is worrisome knowing that he called Texas A&M after his loss to Gardner Web asking if it was possible to come back. I have always thought this could be the reason he never signed his UK contract.
These eight recruits were made in a very short period when just about all highly talented high schoolers were already signed.
I never heard of BCG asking to go back to A&M. Where did you hear that?
Posts: 10418 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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catfan1
Player
Member # 2923
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posted 02-02-2009 07:44 PM
"Get some perspective. Seriously. Have a little bit better sense than this. You know what you’re getting with messageboards. Especially after a loss. One more time: get some perspective and commonsense. Stop posting idiotic things like this. Don’t give a loudspeaker to people who say dumb things in the messageboards on this site."
"People that ***** and moan in messageboards 1) are a very tiny minority of fans, and 2) are using the anonymity to vent frustration. It’s therapeutic for some people. It serves absolutely no purpoes whatsoever"
Two comments made by UK fans I think fits.
Posts: 340 | From: beaver dam kentucky | Registered: Dec 2007
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