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Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 08-04-2019, 08:25 AM:

My very liberal daughter sent me a list of country’s flags listing mass shooting. We had far more than any other country on the Iist. I have no idea what the country’s are as I didn’t recognize most of the flags. I was a little suspicious as her data as it just seemed to be out of line. Being a good liberal, her point was/is we need to ban all civilians from owning guns. I googled mass shootings by country. This link tells a different story.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/mass-shootings-by-country/

Don’t get me wrong, I believe we need more action out of Washington than their “their thoughts and prayers” that are sure to be coming. I’m just not smart enough to know what those actions should be but I’m ready for them to trying something. IMO, banning guns is not the answer.

Even with all our warts, we are fortunate to live in the greatest country on earth.

[ 08-04-2019, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]

Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 08-04-2019, 08:55 AM:

Thank you Sir. This list may come in handy.

Posted by CatFanInYankeeville (Member # 2025) on 08-04-2019, 09:16 AM:

handy, I believe a logical first step would be a standardized universal background check process. States and the Feds don't necessarily look at the same information before approving a gun purchase. Mental health issues that occur at a state level aren't communicated to the feds, so those types of things won't show up on a background for a gun buyer. I agree something needs improving, but it needs to be a bipartisan issue. "Common sense" gun laws currently mean 2 very different things to democrats and republicans.

Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 08-04-2019, 10:54 AM:

IMO, if you are trusted to drive, you should be trusted to own guns. Cars are dangerous, and we require potential drivers to pass both theory and skills tests before we issue a license. State Police generally administer the skills tests.

A simple tweak -- adding a "gun safety certified" icon on your driver's license after you complete a standardized gun safety class should be enough. State Police would give the "skills test", and a full mental health screening would be required before you even take the either the driving or gun skills tests.

If you have the icon on your license, you can buy or own guns. Simple as that.

[ 08-04-2019, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]

Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 08-04-2019, 11:20 AM:

Sure lets make sure only the thugs in Chicago and other violent cities have the ak's not anyone else.

That may work in the vanilla world but not elsewhere as most gangs and others don't even have a dl..

Sound reasoning but that won't change a thing imo.

[ 08-04-2019, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]

Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 08-04-2019, 12:10 PM:

Tiptree:

quote:
If you have the icon on your license, you can buy or own guns. Simple as that.

Also, if you are found in possession of a firearm in your car without the icon you lose your driver's license.

Posted by boomdaddy (Member # 2644) on 08-05-2019, 07:29 AM:

Mental health has always been stigmatized. Those shooters are mentally disturbed.

I don't like the idea of the government taking anyone's guns away, because it can then be used as a weapon to disarm the public in general.

But, the mentally unstable need to be recognized and flagged. Those kids that shoot up schools all seemed to have had psychiatric care at one time or another.

Social media is as good a place as any to at least call those in for evaluation who seem to be exhibiting sociopathic behavior. I don't know what that would be, but they always seem to find signs, after the fact, when they search their homes and look at threats or messages that they have made over time.

Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 08-05-2019, 10:20 AM:

The POTUS just gave a very good speech on the mass shootings. I agree with all he said. I find it hard to believe that anyone will find fault with him over this but i’m Sure some will.

Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 08-05-2019, 11:45 AM:

BoMental health has always been stigmatized. Those shooters are mentally disturbed.
____________________________________________________

May or may not as these two last mass shootings the shooter would have passed buying a gun as they had no mental health issues prior to buying guns...

Dems would like to turn the U.S. into Australia as they have banned ALL guns...

Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 08-05-2019, 12:56 PM:

I don't think it's possible to enforce a ban on ALL guns in the US.

[ 08-05-2019, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]

Posted by boomdaddy (Member # 2644) on 08-05-2019, 08:54 PM:

I dont think there should be gun ban. I think unstable people should be committed. Can't catch them all.

Posted by CatFanInYankeeville (Member # 2025) on 08-08-2019, 11:32 AM:

No possible way to ban every firearm in this country already, and even if it were possible, starting the very next day, more guns would be entering via our borders. The guns aren't the problem, surely we can agree on this point? Historically, we've had gun education in grade schools, pickup trucks in parking lots with shotguns on the rack, and the amount of "mass shootings" was less than today. What changed? The guns certainly didn't. Semi-automatic weapons go back to WW2 at least, and we didn't see this kind of thing happen regularly until the last 20 or so years.

Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 08-08-2019, 04:31 PM:

CFIY:

quote:
No possible way to ban every firearm in this country already

Here are some facts on gun ownership is the US:

American civilians own 40% of the world's guns.

That's more than the next 25 nations combined.

Out of the estimated 390 million civilian owned firearms in the US (estimated because nobody knows), 350 million are neither registered or licensed. To put that layman's terns...90% of civilian owned firearms... 'nobody know whea dey at, and who got 'em'.

The old saying (paraphrasing): 'You can't invade the US because behind every blade of grass is a rifle'....seems appropriate...the US would be a nightmare for any invading force.

Posted by CatFanInYankeeville (Member # 2025) on 08-12-2019, 12:15 PM:

Yes, MM. Coupled with that is the relatively new process of buying a lower receiver that's 80% milled (and is not considered a "firearm" at that point) and then finishing off the milling process in a garage or metal shop. These guns are referred to as 'ghost guns', and there is absolutely zero way to trace them. Now we've also got 3D-printer created receivers for guns, and anyone with access to a 3D printer is capable of creating a gun with no record of it. I think there's no way, including house-to-house confiscation, of confiscating the guns in this country. I know you lean left on some topics but I hope you're more conservative on this individual right.

Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 08-12-2019, 10:15 PM:

CFIY:

quote:
I know you lean left on some topics but I hope you're more conservative on this individual right.

I don't see it as a liberal or conservative issue, but one of common sense.

My position is this:

I'm a long-time gun owner...I own several. I'm a staunch supporter of individual citizen's right to arm and protect themselves, and resistant to any effort by the government to deny us this right.

However, no right is absolute, there are limits on all rights...there has to be. We should require the same reasonable responsibility with our second amendment rights as we do with our right to free speech, there is a point where it stops.

The debate is not gun ownership, but where does that right stop. Gun ownership can come with grave (literally) consequences if not taken seriously and responsibly.

We need universal background checks and "red flag" laws. We should require gun use and safety training. People should know how to properly store, load, unload, clean and even how to hand a gun to someone.

We can go on and on about 'this needs to be done', 'that needs to be done', 'guns ain't the problem", 'guns are the problem', yada, yada, yada. The fact is we are doing absolutely NOTHING about it, and never have.

We all cherish our second amendment rights, but the surest way to lose it is to abuse it.

Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 08-13-2019, 07:46 AM:

Absolutely spot on M&M! Now i’m Going to be called one of them damn liberals.

Posted by CatFanInYankeeville (Member # 2025) on 08-13-2019, 08:28 AM:

I agree with the majority of that, MM. It's definitely common sense. You say you want background checks universally, and that's entirely appropriate. Red flag laws have the potential to start us down a slippery slope, but I agree that if such laws were applied in a reasonable manner it may help prevent the lawful purchase of a firearm from a sick and twisted individual.
I suppose my issue comes down to one important fact. I'm in my early 40s. I know many of you guys are more seasoned than myself. I grew up with guns, everyone I knew were gun owners, hunters, or at the very least familiar with a firearm. We never had the shootings at schools or public stuff like we do today. Sure there was the occasional moron that shot something up, but nothing like we have today.So what changed? Surely the percentage of families with guns isn't lower than it used to be. The absolute number of guns in the US has increased. It's got to be mental health issues. Our population has become desensitized to death and destruction. Blame Hollywood, blame video games or just media in general, but the fact remains that we just don't blink an eye anymore when we hear about someone being murdered. Until we fix that mindset, any changes in laws will just be a finger in the dike.

Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 08-13-2019, 09:23 AM:

quote:
I know many of you guys are more seasoned than myself.

CFIYV, I like that quote a lot. Many of us on here can now think of ourselves as seasoned rather than older than dirt.

Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 08-13-2019, 10:16 AM:

My "seasoning" is starting to shrivel me up. Too much salt is my guess.

Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 08-13-2019, 03:19 PM:

MM, that was an outstanding post. Glad we finally found some common ground. [Smile]

As to being "seasoned", I do possess a "salt-and-pepper" beard.

Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 08-14-2019, 06:53 AM:

Tiptree:

quote:
Glad we finally found some common ground.

We ain't that far apart on a lot of things really, but we are, and probably will to continue to be, not so "common ground" on others...no problemo though...talk about it and see where it lands.

[ 08-14-2019, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]

Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 08-14-2019, 11:27 AM:

MM, you are like a little brother to me. I love you, but you get on my last nerve from time to time!

Posted by MountainMafia (Member # 2066) on 08-14-2019, 12:31 PM:

I love to kid and cut up, always have...but you ain't the first to tell me that...don't mind you keeping me in check at all. [Smile]

EDIT:

I corrected the post to what should have been the original version. Norm, you are right, sir....there are days I really do need to get a life, no doubt about that.

Tiptree,

My intent was never to make light of a very welcomed and appreciated compliment. If you were offended in any way I truly apologize.

[ 08-14-2019, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]