TheCatsDomain.Com Message Boards: Keion Brooks.

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Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 06-06-2022, 05:08 PM:

To the Washington Huskies, a real basketball powerhouse.

I’m not sure how he thinks this move will help his future basketball career.

https://www.uwdawgpound.com/2022/6/6/23140292/washington-adds-kentucky-transfer-keion-brooks-jr-uw-huskies-basketball

Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 06-06-2022, 10:13 PM:

Handy, did you ever read the John Wall interview where he said he almost quit UK in the middle of the year? Maybe playing for Calipari isn't all puppy dogs and rainbows. [Wink]

Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 06-07-2022, 07:33 AM:

Paul, no, I did not read the article but it does not surprise me.

I have no doubt that Cal is demanding and may be perceived as unreasonable by his players at times. I suspect most successful coaches are. We can complain all we want, but by almost any standard, Cal has been successful and his former players seem to love him.

I get aggravated with Cal and want to see another National Championship banner at Rupp as much as anybody.

Today, I believe he his our best option. Check with me tomorrow as I may have a different opinion.

Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 06-07-2022, 11:36 AM:

How about this standard:

Vacated ff in UMass

Vacated FF in Memphis

Vacated over 100 wins

No FF's since 2215 in spite of having the num 1/2 recruiting classes.

Loss to WVa when refused to change offenses when no one could hit the barn door

Loss to inferior Wics with undefeated team when refused to make any changes to personnel especially the brothers with ullis etc

Loss to number 15 seed team last year etc etc reasons

100 dol steak at Malones cause it is called the Cal steak! I had the regular at 34.00. Just as good as his - same result cheaper price. Just like
his record an coaching.

Nope considering the talent and class rankings each year I believe we could have done as well with numerous coaches.

Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 06-07-2022, 07:04 PM:

I think both of those events that caused the vacating of wins were beyond Cal's control. Camby has admitted that he acted on his own, and Rose's SAT thing doesn't seem to have anything to do with Cal. The problem is that the school is punished for misdeeds by either players or boosters; this is the core of why I think the NCAA sucks at doing its job.

He has a few cases where he and his teams sure let us down, and the most glaring complaints center on his seeming stubborness about substitutions and style of play. But, as a leader of a revolving-door of talented egos that stay one year, stubborness is a virtue. If he were less stubborn, we might all be complaining about THAT instead.

We fans seem to want to treat college basketball as if it was a computer game... load up on the best players, and you will win every time. But it just isn't like that. These are talented kids, but they are kids nonetheless. Girlfriend problems, academic pressures, bad advice from friends and family... these things will mess with a kid's head. And we can see that sometimes on the court.

In my opinion, Brooks is a great example of what Cal has to deal with. He recruits kids with the highest ambitions, and who are surrounded by people who think they know what is best for them, and aren't afraid to tell them. Brooks just isn't as great as his entourage things he is, and that messes with a kid's head. He has acted on what is clear to us is bad advice.

But Brooks is older, and should have been wiser; yet he succumbed. Consider instead of Brooks, one of our freshmen with all that mess swirling around in their heads in the brightest spotlight of all, the NCAA tournament, and things can go from perfect to horrible right quickly. And no amount of coaching is going to fix those problems of the heart and head.

College basketball has always been about heart over talent. For a little while, a mere 40 minutes, even the worst underdog can rise up and beat the superior team. We all love the game precisely because of this; if not, we would all be NBA fans.

I am not smart enough nor knowlegeable enough about the field of coaches to pick someone better than Cal. Lord knows we could do worse.

BTW, despite the fiasco of our ZERO tournament wins in 2022, guess which coach has the most NCAA tournament wins? Yep, Cal.

[ 06-07-2022, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]

Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 06-07-2022, 09:48 PM:

load up on the best players, and you will win every time. But it just isn't like that. These are
_________________________________________________

if u load up each year we should be in the "hunt" each year. That we are not! Good recruiter - horrible bench coach!

p.s. as for as umass and memphis - guess the "buck" doesnt stop at the head coach. The rewards come but the disasters do not?

[ 06-07-2022, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]

Posted by m hamilton (Member # 127) on 06-08-2022, 06:11 AM:

You guys are right, Cal should've never given Camby that Mink coat, diamond studded necklace and $40,000!
If memory serves me right, he was the one who reported the things Camby received.

I also remember the NCAA giving Memphis the green light to play the player who was originally deemed ineligible. Once again, you would've been upset at Cal if the same situation were to happen at UK and Cal didn't play a player the NCAA deemed eligible.

[ 06-08-2022, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: m hamilton ]

Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 06-08-2022, 08:13 AM:

The incidents happened under his watch and he is responsible period! All good snake oil sellers slither out of responsible..

That's like saying the high oil prices are because of Putin when in fact cancelling the pipeline and cancelling oil leases are the root causes - especially here in America.

Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 06-09-2022, 01:05 AM:

Ed,

Sounds like you have made up your mind that Cal is both a terrible coach and a terrible person.

So be it. Your opinion is as valuable as mine. Let's just disagree.

I always give a lot of leeway to those in tough leadership positions. It is incredibly difficult to make decisions under pressure and under intense scrutiny. Been there, done that, and know at least a glimmer of what it is like. I think Cal is doing an amazing job; coaching UK basketball isn't really about coaching, it is about running a world-class enterprise.

Posted by m hamilton (Member # 127) on 06-09-2022, 06:03 AM:

Just my $.02

I'll be the first to admit that I've been disappointed with the number of banners that Cal has hung in the rafters. On the other hand, the number of community leaders that he has developed over the past several years has been invaluable.

Not saying other coaches COULDN'T DO IT, but the self sacrifice that he has taught these young men, giving back to the community. Numerous fundraisers for needful charities. Samaritans Feet, etc.

[ 06-09-2022, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: m hamilton ]

Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 06-09-2022, 07:41 AM:

I admit to being frustrated with Cal at times also. He simply doesn’t know the game like we do here on the domain.

I think we need to cut him a little slack. After all, he’s young. At least by the standards in our little community.

[ 06-09-2022, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]

Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 06-09-2022, 08:48 AM:

Tip I was a strong supporter of his hire and his 1st several years of being our coach. In the last few years, actually since 2015, he has become very critical of the fan base and has basically put himself on a pedestal.

I can take that when he is winning and putting us in a position to win it all but lately he has not and once fans question this, he becomes surly!
I like most believe with the talent he has recruited, we should have had at least two national titles if not three.

Yes, I am down on him leading this program and last year was us in the pits and becoming a laughing stock!

Handy - you are so right!

Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 06-09-2022, 09:56 AM:

I am an expert on heating and air conditioning, major appliances, and intercontinental Ballistic Missiles. I've never been able to play or coach basketball. I'll just leave that to you experts in that field of endeavor. Oh yes. I can fix B-47 bombers too, but they are pretty much phased out now.

Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 06-09-2022, 11:03 AM:

Handy, we may know more about basketball than that youngster Cal, but the most important things that our collective and individual wisdom teaches us are:

(1) Never take a job where your success and failure depends 100% on young kids with massive egos and who have received (and continue to receive) a lifetime of bad advice.

(2) Never take a job in which you are held liable for actions taken by others that are completely beyond your control.

(3) Never take a job where the expectations are so high that it is impossible to fulfill them.

No, we are both too smart and too wise to do that. Who in their right mind would?

We wise old goats come here to TCD to offer our helpful advice, carry our history proudly on our sleeves and wonder why we don't get at least 30 wins, beat all of our rivals, win the SEC, run the SEC tournament, and go to the final four every year, winning every 3-4 years. I mean, come on, is that too much to ask? Anybody should be able to pull that off ... we are UK! We, who never played one minute for the University of Kentucky, deserve it!

It is good to be semi-anonymous on the internet. [Big Grin]

Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 06-09-2022, 05:13 PM:

Norm, you got me beat. I was a telephone man my entire work life and most of that was managing outside technicians and their supervisors. In a meeting many years ago, I told a group, as long as you do your jobs, you will never have to worry about employment. There will always be telephones. I was half right. There are more phones than ever but they are cell phones. Outside technicians are a dying breed. Technology has changed that industry to the point that I cannot even talk the language with my son who is an AT&T manager.

Tip, I agree. I too believe Cal has done an amazing job of managing what I believe is an almost unmanageable coaching position. I was uneasy when he was hired. However, IMO, he has represented the University with class and integrity with the possible exception of the kneeling incident. I did not agree with that decision, regardless of his intents and motives. But again, he is young.

However some of his in game coaching decisions are a different matter. I go along with many on here about the number of Championship banners he has hung. I believe that’s in part, due to his losing his top adviser. Hope that doesn’t sound like I’m tooting my own horn.

Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 06-09-2022, 06:17 PM:

Tip I am going to have to call you out on the most ncaa tournamnet wins !!!

Current ncaa coaches with the most tournament wins.

Jim Boeheim 57
Tom Izzo 52
Bill Self 47
Cal 46

Cal 4th highest and that is only because coach K retired with 100 this year and Coach Willimas retired last year with 77.

Also Bill Self is 4 years younger than Cal so I am not sure Call will end up with more than Self.

MEL

Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 06-09-2022, 06:52 PM:

Mel, what am I missing here? Do you have a different link? Maybe I’m interrupting something wrong.

https://www.boydsbets.com/ncaa-tournament-best-coaches/

Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 06-09-2022, 10:01 PM:

Mel,

I specified most wins since 2010, roughly corresponding to Cal's UK tenure.

Lifetime wins would be a totally different thing.

Posted by MEL (Member # 141) on 06-09-2022, 11:55 PM:

Handy I am looking at the site you listed and it says active which means k and Coach Williams were still coaching. It also doesn't include Pitino in the first list but in the second list it has him with 1 more win than Cal. Can't figure that list out.
Here is the site I am going off of and it says it was done 2 months ago which accounts for the 6 games Self won this year to win the tournament.
https://fansided.com/2022/03/25/coaches-most-ncaa-tournament-wins/

Tip, I must be blind but I don't see where you said since "2010" if you did I am not seeing it.
How many does Cal have since 2010 ??? If I am not mistakien Self has 31

MEL

Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 06-10-2022, 12:49 PM:

In my opinion, the top benchmark of coaches should be championships, followed by tournament wins, followed by overall wins.

If you look at Wikipedia, it has a list of multiple-championship coaches. There is no one named "Calipari" on that list. Instead are names like Donovan, Pitino (1 vacated, however?), Williams, Self, Crum and Wright.

I think it would have been neat if Billy Donovan stayed a college coach so we could see what more he could've done. He coached college for eleven seasons and won two titles. That's impressive. More impressive than coaching for 24 years, having the most NBA-talent players, claiming to recruit the best of the best, yet only having one title. Hmmm.

Posted by ukcatfannfl (Member # 1425) on 06-10-2022, 08:26 PM:

My thoughts exactly Paulcat - well put!