TheCatsDomain.Com Message Boards: It's starting to sound like 2007

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Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 04-07-2022, 05:55 PM:

There is a lot of heated criticism of coach Cal on this board and elsewhere, and it has been intensifying each year. An embarrassing loss to 15th seed St. Peters has brought those criticisms to a fever pitch. At least three members here on TCD are openly and frequently calling for Cal to be fired.

It reminds me of 2007... when the same kind of comments were flooding TCD that Tubby must go. The consensus was that Tubby was a great coach, but a terrible recruiter. Well, he went. We got a nightmare coach in Billy Gillespie, and after two grueling years of futility, we received the the "savior" -- John Calipari. Cal came in promising to leverage the legacy of UK to recruit only the best players, and to make UK the "gold standard" of college basketball... and for a while, he delivered on that promise.

Now, we are unhappy that Duke, Kansas, and others get the better players, and since Cal "can't coach", "doesn't develop his players", and more, he must go.

Let's pause a moment. Many look fondly back at Tubby's tenure, some of the same people who were totally against him back in 2005-2007. If Cal were to be dismissed (unlikely, given the payout required), or leave on his own, how many of us will look back fondly to this time?

My only point is to be careful what you wish for. Being a basketball coach at UK is a terrible burden as well as an opportunity. Not too many are cut out for this position, and of those, not many want it.

I could argue point by point about Cal's coaching, his recruiting, his player development... but that would just add gasoline to the bonfire, and earn me only animosity.

I personally think we, as fans, will find fault with ANY coach we hire. Yeah, we give them a few seasons with only hope and praise, but then we will turn on them. We expect championships every few years, we expect unrelenting excellence from every player, every game, we expect our coach to play the players WE think deserve to play, and accuse them of being stupid or "biased" when it doesn't happen. We expect the best players to beat a path to play here, and we start wondering what is wrong when we miss on some after a very short honeymoon period. In short, we expect perfection.

Just a thought: Perhaps we are the problem.

Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 04-07-2022, 06:07 PM:

I totally agree and have thought the same thing for some time now. Just didn't have the nads to post it.

Posted by ukman (Member # 3032) on 04-07-2022, 09:08 PM:

Great expression of your thoughts. I do however disagree with some. In my case I have not been a fan of Cal's coaching from the beginning. I have never thought he was a good coach, but did think he was a great recruiter. I have always felt that we won in 2012 despite Cals coaching, and I thought there was no way to mess up the absolute dominance of talent we had in 2014-2015, but he did.

I totally understand the whole "be careful what you wish for" statements, but I wish for someone who will think about winning championships, not just getting draft picks. I wish for someone who will adapt their coaching, and look to try different approaches to get the best out of the talent he has, or try different adjustments and players during games when things aren't going great. I wish for a coach that will have game plans on a consistent basis, and puts in the time watching video so the players are as prepared as possible.

If Cal left, I might look back and wish he were still around, but in my case, I don't thinks so as long as Mitch does a good job in the hiring process. I get there are some coaches that will not want the pressure, but I think there are a lot that would love to have this job. I also understand that fans can be fair weathered and change with each season. In my case, I have never changed my thoughts on Cal and who he is as a coach. Was I happy early on with the great recruiting classes and talent? YES. But I never told anyone that he was a great coach. I was never impressed with his coaching, and I am still not.

I just want someone who is going to get the most out of the players he recruits, and recruits players that he knows he can develop and mesh into a championship contending team. I hate to say it, but we are not the "Gold Standard" anymore. That would have to go to a school that has won 2-3 championships in the last 12 years, or been to multiple final fours in the last 7 years. What I have been looking at isn't just did we win championships, but what has been done with all the talent that has come through. I don't think anyone on here would agree that we should have only 1 championship in Cal's time. Definitely should have 2, maybe 3. I know he does a lot of things well when it comes to recruiting and handling all the pressure, and that's a big factor in succeeding; I would just REALLY like to see some better coaching during games. I don't think we are asking too much from someone who gets paid 9 million a year to adapt and try to look at some different strategies, etc. He is not deserving of being the highest paid coach in basketball, and the people of Kentucky are not getting their moneys worth from him.

I am praying once again that he will adapt some different offenses, and defensive strategies, but I no longer am holding my breath for that. He did a great job putting together an amazing team this year. But do you really think this team improved over the course of the year? And I mean beyond just the whole getting used to playing with each other. We are the only team to have destroyed both teams in the championship, but I would say we peaked at that Kansas game. It seems like teams figured us out and we didn't know anything to do different. I honestly don't know if I want Cal fired, I just want him to be willing to change and improve. If he isn't going to do that then he needs to go. It is scary to think of him being gone and could we get great talent again. Because these kids now come to UK just to get to the NBA, and he's shown he can do that. Could another coach come in and get consistently top 20 to top 10 classes and win a championship? I think so. As far as my thoughts on Tubby, he just couldn't recruit the top players, and that is an important factor in College success. However, we have seen Jay Wright do an amazing job with lesser talent. What I really wish for is a combination of Tubby and Cal. But that is a dream. I still can't wait until next November so I can watch every Cats game again. And I'll be looking to see what the team is going to look like for next year in anticipation of a chance at #9.

Posted by EnterpriseCat (Member # 2881) on 04-07-2022, 09:37 PM:

I’ll plead guilty to being a fan who has expectations that are too high for anyone to meet.

Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 04-08-2022, 07:33 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tiptree:
...but that would just add gasoline to the bonfire, and earn me only animosity.

I hope nobody here feels this way. There's always going to be disagreement, but never animosity from me. I've never met anyone on this site, although I may have once strolled right past Tiptree as I walked the hallowed halls of Holmes High. Yet I feel like I know everyone. Opinions different than mine, and the person who expresses them, will always be respected with never any animosity.

Back to the topic. I never wanted Pitino or Tubby to leave, and I never heard of any fan turning on Pitino or wanting him to leave. I found not one fault with Pitino. Pitino could’ve been to UK what coach K was to Dook. He’s a great coach, recruiter, and one hell of a motivator. I believe we’d have a few more championships right now as well.

I understand the knock on Tubby, but I thoroughly enjoyed each season he was here. He was a very admirable man and a pretty darn good coach. I think his entire downfall had to do with Saul. That killed a lot of better recruits from coming to UK.

Now Gillespie had to go.

As for Cal, I don’t think he’s a great coach. I think he’s a terrible motivator. I think he’s obnoxious as all get out. It’s embarrassing the way he yells and belittles the players during games. I think he just recruits top talent and goes as far as they can take him. But the main reason I don’t care for him is that I am totally sick of his one-and-done crap. It’s pretty obvious he pushes kids to the NBA just to make the money, even though they have no future there. Yes, many of his recruits have good NBA careers, but just as many leave UK (or get pushed out?) and go nowhere. It’s hard for me to form a bond with a player like Tyty who has a so-so freshman year and then away he goes. It’s hard for me to form a bond with many of the players he recruits. My favorite player in the Cal era is Darius Miller who was recruited by Gillespie.

In this year’s championship game between UNC and Kansas, freshmen logged a total of 3 minutes of playing time. That was one player for Kansas. Those teams were built with mostly 3 and 4-start players who didn’t run off because they’re projected in the first round or because their coach is recruiting over them and they know they’ll just ride the pine most of their careers. To me, that’s great coaching and great recruiting. Anyone can throw scholarships at the top players and hope you get them. Great recruiters/coaches see something in the 3 and 4 stars and turn them into a great team.

I’m just done with all the Cal brings to this program. The direction this program is heading is due South.

[ 04-08-2022, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: PaulCat ]

Posted by Bama Cat (Member # 153) on 04-08-2022, 10:39 AM:

I tend to agree with just about everything that has been said here. However, if we expect to win another championship big changes will have to be made. Cal may not want to make some of those changes, but if he wants the support of BBN he has no choice. We can't continue missing out on championships when we clearly have possibly the best team in the country. He has very knowledgible coaches who are getting paid a lot more than most assistant coaches in this country. I have no problem with his recruiting but HE MUST TRAIN THEM AND SHOW THE IMPROVEMENT THEY'VE MADE UNDER HIS WATCH. We have two players, namely Brooks and Ware, who will be a senior and junior next year, if they stay. Are either one of them ready to play big minutes. Not unless they become more consistent before next November.

So now we see that Hopkins is gone to the tranfer portal also. Why? Only one reason possible, Cal had no confidence in him this year after he showed he could perform if given the chance(another Johnny Juzang??) It takes Cal almost 4 years before he can get some of these recruits ro where he has any faith in them at all. Either don't sign them unless he wants to see them get better before the end of college or leave the roster spot blank. We don't need 4 or 5 bench playeras who come here fror 4 years and don't improve enough to get off the pine.

Next years roster looks like a farce at this point, but it's small enough that even Cal may be able to manage it. He'll have to get very lucky in the transfer portal or we could return to the pandemic year without reaching 10 wins. We are down to Toppin, Wheeler, Frederick, Ware & Collins coming back. We have the possibility of Brooks and Tshiebwe coming back. That's 7 kids with some experience. And it looks like we will have 2 freshmen coming in, Livingston and Wallace. There you go, off to the portal to look for about 2 or 3 transfers. And I saw on the web where the Way Too Early top 25 ratings had Uk at #2 ion the country behind Arkansas. Ha! If anyone can believe that crap they are in another world.

Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 04-08-2022, 09:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by PaulCat:
I think he’s a terrible motivator. I think he’s obnoxious as all get out. It’s embarrassing the way he yells and belittles the players during games.[/QB]

PC,

Other than his archaic offense and his refusal to zone out of bounds plays so UK gives up easy scores my biggest complaint is what you mentioned above.

He reminds me of Bobby Knight on the sideline who I grew up despising for his behavior. Cal acts just like him and is as stubborn to a fault just like Knight.