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Topic: Did Trump Disparage the Military?
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 09-05-2020 09:40 AM
I don't know if Trump said the things he is accused of saying, but I do know it's not out of character for him and the claim has been verified by other sources, including Fox News and the Associated Press.
If he did, what would be your reaction?
[ 09-05-2020, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 09-05-2020 10:35 AM
I don’t think he said it. I base that on Bolton saying he heard nothing like that and he was there when the decision was made not to visit the cemetery. Bolton is no fan of Trump and I believe him to be an honest man.
Who ever made this story up was pretty shrewd. Trump has said some very insensitive and inappropriate things in the past and this fits into some of his past narratives and tweets.
The media hates Trump so much and is so biased against him, it’s making it hard to believe anything they say.
Yes, Trump brings a lot of this on himself but that is no excuse to slanting the news the way they are.
[ 09-05-2020, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posts: 5407 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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MountainMafia
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posted 09-05-2020 11:23 AM
I despise Trump and I make no apologies for that, he has given me many reasons to believe him unworthy of being president.
Like you, hc, I believe Bolton to be an honest man and believe him when he says he was there when the decision was made and didn't hear Trump say those things. But Bolton has said many other things about Trump that I also believe, including that it would not be out of character for him to say it and that Trump may have said it later on when he wasn't around.
The thing is, the claims have been verified by at least 4 other news outlets, including Fox News. The original story cites 4 different senior WH officials.
Right now I don't know what or who to believe. Considering the magnitude of these claims I wish these "anonymous sources" would come forward, but, then again, what good would it do?
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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Tiptree
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posted 09-05-2020 01:12 PM
Since I don't watch any news, what on earth are you guys talking about?
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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PaulCat
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Member # 513
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posted 09-05-2020 01:28 PM
I'm with you, Tip. It's been many, many years since i've watched the news. To me, news was ESPN SportsCenter. Now i don't even give ESPN a thought. I've gotten to the point where I rarely watch anything with commercials - I'm all Hulu, Netflix, Amazon or Video On Demand.
Sorry that I hijacked the topic.
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 09-05-2020 02:24 PM
Google: Trump calls troops losers and suckers
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 09-05-2020 04:30 PM
Quote but, then again, what good would it do?
None.
Since my first post, I’ve seen a few on Fox News and some Republicans appear to be trying to distance themselves from this latest inane remark. He may or not have made it but, unfortunately, those comments appear to align with others he has made.
In November I’m going to vote on policy, not character. If Trump is re-elected, I will rely on the other two branches of government and the Republican Party to keep him reigned in.
Posts: 5407 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 09-06-2020 03:35 AM
hc:
quote:
In November I’m going to vote on policy, not character.
In November I'll be voting for both....one and the same, imo.
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If Trump is re-elected, I will rely on the other two branches of government and the Republican Party to keep him reigned in.
I'm afraid that ship has already sailed, hc.
Edit:
I don't know if you even care any more, hc, but I do remember you asking me once about how my "quotes" turn out the way they do.
You may already know this but when you click on the "quote button" the cursor is always outside the two quote markers instead of between them. You must first left-click, then right-click between the markers before you paste. This may or may not be the problem, just thought I'd pass it along.
[ 09-06-2020, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 09-06-2020 09:57 AM
M&M, as you and everybody else on this board knows, I share your intense dislike of Donald Trump. I’v made no secret of that in my personal life as well. By not keeping that opinion to myself, I’ve lost at least a couple of friends on this board and more than that among friends. If having different political opinions loses friends, I’m fine with their decision. I simply can not understand the adoration of so many of his supporters.
IMO, Donald Trump is a danger to this country. Where we differ is that I belief the policies of the Democratic Party are a bigger danger.
That being said, I respect and understand your position. You really can’t help it, you’re just misguided. I strongly suspect you were dropped on your small little head as a baby.
quote:
small little head as a baby.
Maybe your head is not quite as small as I thought.
[ 09-06-2020, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posts: 5407 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 09-06-2020 11:10 AM
I know where your coming from, hc, and I don't have a problem with the people who support Trump, just Trump himself...he's the one misguiding his base supporters and they just can't see it, or won't see it.
quote:
IMO, Donald Trump is a danger to this country. Where we differ is that I belief the policies of the Democratic Party are a bigger danger.
Affordable healthcare and housing, a decent, livable wage, affordable education, protecting civil rights and liberties, rule of law, standing with your allies and friends in condemning murderous dictators and tyrants instead of embracing them, and last but certainly not least...showing respect and appreciation to our great military men and women who risk and lose their lives protecting this great nation....How can that be more dangerous than Trump?
Anyone who stops being your friend over politics never was your friend to begin with...people can disagree without becoming enemies.
BTW, that was a nice looking quote you posted...professional looking. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Oh, yeah...which head?
[ 09-06-2020, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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Tiptree
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posted 09-06-2020 12:08 PM
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Affordable healthcare and housing, a decent, livable wage, affordable education...
These are NOT the purview of the federal government. You really should read your constitution sometime; it is only a couple of pages long. You might be shocked.
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protecting civil rights and liberties, rule of law, standing with your allies and friends in condemning murderous dictators and tyrants instead of embracing them, and last but certainly not least...showing respect and appreciation to our great military men and women who risk and lose their lives protecting this great nation...
OK, these are definitely the things the executive branch of Federal Government is charged with. And, I would submit, conservatives are aligned with you on all of them. Rule of law is a joke these days... just look at the wanton destruction in our cities. And not just ANY cities... those with decades of entrenched democrat leadership. The rule of law has been tossed aside in those places.
And if character matters to you, if dealing with autocrats is a no-no to you, you might recall that Mr. Biden cut a nice quid quo pro deal with the leader of Ukraine to get his son a million-dollar-per-year "seat" on the board of what is considered the single most corrupt company in the world, which deals with an industry which he has ZERO knowledge of.
Lastly, as HC and I have to do waaaay too often, look at what Mr. Trump DOES, not what he says. Even if he secretly despises the military (which I doubt), he has made it a point to restore the pride and funding that was eroded during Obama's tenure, and he is doing what Obama promised to do, but failed: Withdraw from Afganistan, reduce our presence in the Middle East, and pivot to Asia. His efforts to restructure NATO are also long overdue; I applaud his decision to move troops out of Germany and into Poland.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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MEL
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Member # 141
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posted 09-06-2020 12:22 PM
Thank you for your knowledge and replys Tip !!!
MEL
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Tiptree
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Member # 844
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posted 09-06-2020 12:29 PM
One final thought on Biden vs. Trump.
With trade, alliances, and foreign relationshiops, Trump is doing things that are in the interest of our country. Ever since Reagan, we have been doing things to make other nations happy. While there needs to be some give-and-take, most of the give has been on us, and others did most of the taking.
(1) NATO has been happy relying upon us, the American taxpayers, to provide their defense ever since the end of WWII. Most nations never came within spitting distance of the minimum requirement of 2% of GDP for defense spending. Trump is the first US president to challenge that. Instead of stationing most of our troops in Germany, contributing billions to their economy, Trump is moving some of them to Poland. Bravo to him.
(2) China "opened" under Richard Nixon and Henyr Kissinger. It was in our national interest to create good relationships with China, because they were no threat to the US in any way, but could provide a strong counter-threat to Russia should "the balloon go up" in Europe. China and Russia were supposed part of the solid "communist block", but they had recently had a military clash that shook up the Chinese government, which, like ours, fear Russia's military might.
But, once the cold war ended, that relationship of convenience was not so necessary. And, during the 90s, China began it's meteoric rise economically, while also strengthening its military. It is now building a "blue water" navy, a very capable air force, deploys killer satellites in orbit to blind our detection and command-and-control systems, and routinely engages in cyber warfare against us. Not to mention the rampant espionage, both political and industrial, that China uses against us. Trump is the first president to stand up to them, and bravo to him for it.
(3) For decades, our southern border has been porous and ineffective; tens of millions have crossed into the United States illegally. We have a very effective immigration system whereby people can apply to come to live here, and I support expanding that system to allow more people to come here. But I will NEVER support illegal immigrants.
A nation without effective borders is NOT a nation. There can be no rule of law if tens of millions are here illegally, taking jobs and receiving benefits. Trump was the first president to recognize this glaring, decades-old problem and attempt to address it. Bravo to him for it.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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Old Norm
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posted 09-06-2020 01:39 PM
I really don't want to enter this conversion, but being retired military, and knowing what I know, I cannot let these disparaging remarks about Mister Trump and the military go unopposed. During the last administration, the military was allowed to go to Hell in a handbasket. Almost no helicopters from Fort Campbell, 40 miles away, flew over our house on practice runs. Firing ranges on military bases were shut down except for "dry fire" practice. Parts were salvaged from the "boneyard" outside Davis-Monthan airbase near Tucson, Arizona to keep planes flying. Naval vessels were kept in port because they could not get parts for necessary repairs.
Just talk to an active duty or discharged or retired veteran, and ask what they think of President Trump's actions, not what he says, but his actions. I'd bet near 75% of them approve. He has reconstructed and refunded the military in ways you wouldn't believe, unless you had actually been there.
Now as far as character goes, you won't get much of an argument from me. I don't think he and I could ever be beer drinking, or fishing buddies, but in my opinion, he has done the best job for this country of any president in my lifetime. Granted, I'm only 85 tears old, so there may have been one I didn't know.
This is my second try at writing this. I let my temper show in the first one, so I deleted it and started over.
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Pray For Our Country!
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 09-07-2020 08:27 AM
TIP:
quote:
Affordable healthcare and housing, a decent, livable wage, affordable education...
These are NOT the purview of the federal government. You really should read your constitution sometime; it is only a couple of pages long. You might be shocked.
The only thing I'm shocked at is your unawareness of the 3000+ pages of the US Constitution, Analysis and Interpretation since those intentionally vague and ambiguous "couple of pages" were first written, which has obviously led to your limited understanding and patronizing opinion regarding the constitution.
I'm guessing by "purview" you mean the federal government doesn't have to if it chooses, but isn't prohibited by the constitution since there is a Dept of Labor, Dept of Education, Dept of Housing and Urban development, Dept of Health and Human Services, Medicaid assistance, etc etc.
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And if character matters to you, if dealing with autocrats is a no-no to you, you might recall that Mr. Biden cut a nice quid quo pro deal with the leader of Ukraine to get his son a million-dollar-per-year "seat" on the board of what is considered the single most corrupt company in the world, which deals with an industry which he has ZERO knowledge of.
Not a shred of evidence, but you keep frustratingly waving this conspiracy theory flag.
Now, if you want to talk about an attempted (before Trump was caught) strong-arm quid quo pro initiated by Trump against the Ukraine president, which Senate republicans agreed happened, but, for some unimaginable reason, said it didn't rise to the level of an impeachable offense, then we can go there easily with mounds of proof.
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Even if he secretly despises the military
That may be the most disturbing dismissal I've heard yet of Trump's despicable and shameless not-so-secret behavior. He is, after all, Commander-In-Chief.
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he has made it a point to restore the pride and funding that was eroded during Obama's tenure, and he is doing what Obama promised to do, but failed: Withdraw from Afganistan, reduce our presence in the Middle East, and pivot to Asia. His efforts to restructure NATO are also long overdue; I applaud his decision to move troops out of Germany and into Poland.
I can't recall a day in my life time the US didn't posses the most powerful military on the planet.
Obama tried to withdraw from Afghanistan....I'll give you three guesses who fought him tooth and nail on it. What was the phrase being thrown around? Oh, yeah, "cut and run"...that's it. Sorta like what Trump did in Syria when he abandoned our Kurdish allies shortly after speaking to another one of his good buddies Mr. Erdogan.
[ 09-07-2020, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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Tiptree
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posted 09-07-2020 11:56 AM
quote:
The only thing I'm shocked at is your unawareness of the 3000+ pages of the US Constitution, Analysis and Interpretation since those intentionally vague and ambiguous "couple of pages" were first written, which has obviously led to your limited understanding and patronizing opinion regarding the constitution.
Who, exactly, is unaware here? There are only two pages to the US constitution, PERIOD.
The other stuff you cite as some sort of "expanded constitution" is legal precedent, derived from court rulings. One particularly heinous example is Roe v. Wade, which ruled that is is perfectly OK to murder babies. Such legal rulings are opinions, delivered by people, and are subject to change by congress, the courts, or (sadly) by administrative fiat.
To change our actual constitution requires adding an amendment; the process for adding an amendment is carefully laid out, and has been done several times since our founding. Roe v. Wade is NOT part of our constitution; the 2nd amendment IS part of our constitution.
Saying that all the other stuff is our "constitution" is like saying that all of the biblical commentaries are part of the bible. I am quite sure that all of the authors of those excellent commentaries would disagree with that assertion completely, just like I utterly reject your "expansive" definition of the US constitution.
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Not a shred of evidence, but you keep frustratingly waving this conspiracy theory flag.
Now, if you want to talk about an attempted (before Trump was caught) strong-arm quid quo pro initiated by Trump against the Ukraine president, which Senate republicans agreed happened, but, for some unimaginable reason, said it didn't rise to the level of an impeachable offense, then we can go there easily with mounds of proof.
Really? It is a "conspiracy theory" if it involves Biden threatening to withhold aid unless a prosecutor investigating Burisma was fired, but it is a horrible, impeachable crime if Trump used similar leverage to urge that a prosecutor investigate it? You are showing your colors more and more, MM.
Even the left-leaning Politifact concedes the Hunter Biden story is "half true": https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/may/07/viral-image/fact-checking-joe-biden-hunter-biden-and-ukraine/
Here is Reuters' take, which is another left-leaning organization: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hunter-biden-ukraine/what-hunter-biden-did-on-the-board-of-ukrainian-energy-company-burisma-idUSKBN1WX1P7
The fact that there are DOZENS of stories "debunking" this episode in the New York Times tells me quite a bit too.
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That may be the most disturbing dismissal I've heard yet of Trump's despicable and shameless not-so-secret behavior. He is, after all, Commander-In-Chief.
Distrubing? If true, then yes. But, as Commander-in-Chief, his duties have been admirably done. As I keep saying, look at what he DOES, not what he SAYS.
I have served as a director for nearly 20 years. Being human, I may think, or *gasp* even say something unkind about those I am charged with leading. But I promise you I will discharge my duties as a director without bias or dereliction, no matter what I feel about the individuals.
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I can't recall a day in my life time the US didn't posses the most powerful military on the planet.
Partially true. Depending on your willingness to use nuclear weapons, you spent most of your youth in an America that was militarily outnumbered and outgunned by the Soviets. We could not possibly defeat the Soviet forces in Europe without resorting to nukes.
Our military has always been charged with being capable of simultaneously achieving two objectives: Control the seas, and be able to fight and win two major wars simultaneously. No other nation on earth has such high expectations of its Military, and we must fund them accordingly.
During Obama'a administration, the military publicly said that they could not achieve those goals. As Norm pointed out, in terms of personnel, equipment, and training, we simply did not meet the grade.
Yes, we were still the most powerful military on the planet, but we were also unable to complete our mission. And, you may have noticed that that "most powerful" military was unable to defeat poorly equipped and barely trained irregular forces for almost two decades of constant warfare. Hardly a resounding endorsement of your point of view.
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Obama tried to withdraw from Afghanistan....I'll give you three guesses who fought him tooth and nail on it. What was the phrase being thrown around? Oh, yeah, "cut and run"...that's it.
Ah, your understanding of our constitutionis showing yet again. Because there was no declared war in Afganistan, the President, acting as Commander-in-Chief, could order the withdrawal of forces at any time. Congress has NO power in this area. Now, I will agree with you that our congress' unwillingness to declare war since the end of WWII is cowardly, and has led to an imbalance in power between congress and the president, but the last 50 years (starting with Korea, Vietnam, and all the way through today), we have been waging war without ever declaring war.
Obama could have issued the order to withdraw. He did not. If you are saying that some political opponents calling him names deterred him, what does that say about Obama?
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Sorta like what Trump did in Syria when he abandoned our Kurdish allies shortly after speaking to another one of his good buddies Mr. Erdogan.
<sigh>. I wrote a long post about this before, and I will not write another. There are many tribes that call themselves "Kurds", but they are not unified in any sense of the word. They don't even speak the same language, they have fought among themselves for centuries, and they have very different ideas about who is an ally and who is a friend. The Kurds who are US Allies are from the Kurdish autonomous region in Northern Iraq. We have a strong and vibrant relationship with them. The ones that you claim we "betrayed" were Kurds in Syria; these are closely aligned with the PKK in Turkey. The Kurds in Iraq don't like them, Turkey doesn't like them, but as part of the ever-shifting tribal alliances that dominate Syria, we fought alongside them. But to assume that such alliances are permanent is to ignore the sordid reality of the region. If we were to keep our 'alliance' with that group of Kurds, it would definitely strain our very real, and very important alliances with Turkey (via NATO) and the Kurds in Iraq. In addition, keeping that alliance put us in daily danger of open conflict with the Russians, something that would not be in our national interest. Lastly, if you are advocating that we honor that alliance forever and ever, then you are advocating that the US must stay in Syria forever and ever.
Is that really your stance? Or is this just another convenient half-truth to throw against Trump because you detest him so much?
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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MountainMafia
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posted 09-07-2020 03:49 PM
no mas! no mas!
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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MountainMafia
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posted 09-07-2020 03:55 PM
Norm:
quote:
Just talk to an active duty or discharged or retired veteran, and ask what they think of President Trump's actions, not what he says, but his actions. I'd bet near 75% of them approve.
That may be a tad high, Norm.
Link
quote:
He has reconstructed and refunded the military in ways you wouldn't believe, unless you had actually been there.
Link
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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Tiptree
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posted 09-08-2020 12:00 PM
Two comments, MM.
The demographics of the US military would suggest a strong anti-Trump bias. Let's leave it at that. And I will definitely side with the 75% who opposed sending active-duty military into American cities to quell riots. That is NOT the role of our military!
Second, as always, look at what Trump does, not what he says. Regarding military spending, scroll down to the last graph in your linked article. Note the huge run-up under Bush (which includes Obama's first year, since that defense bill was passed under Bush's tenure). Then the spending declined steadily under Obama, only to rise again under Trump.
I sure wish the man would stay on script and quote the facts that his advisors supply him with, but that just won't happen. He is a consummate off-the-cuff speaker with good instincts as to what to say to persuade people; unfortunately, those instincts way too often involve distortions of reality. But, the gist of what he claims is true, even if he doesn't know the difference between overall defense spending and procurement.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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MountainMafia
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posted 09-08-2020 06:46 PM
Tip:
quote:
The demographics of the US military would suggest a strong anti-Trump bias.
Nice choice of words Tip....bias? Really? The US military has always been “biased” toward Republican presidents? How about discust, disgraceful, dispicable .....just for a few more appropriate descriptions.
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That is NOT the role of our military!
It’s not the role of the federal government, not just the military. Like you said read your constitution. You will be shocked.
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Second, as always, look at what Trump does, not what he says
Right! Like injecting bleach or voting twice...there are fools out there who believe this crazy sh*t...and there those who don’t but will protect their portfolios at any cost.
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even if he doesn't know the difference between overall defense spending and procurement.
He doesn’t know the difference between right and wrong...just profit and loss...there’s is a moral difference...morality? Who gives a damn about that if it conflicts with your financial interest.
[ 09-08-2020, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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Tiptree
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posted 09-08-2020 08:02 PM
quote:
The demographics of the US military would suggest a strong anti-Trump bias.
quote:
Nice choice of words Tip....bias? Really? The US military has always been “biased” toward Republican presidents? How about discust, disgraceful, dispicable .....just for a few more appropriate descriptions.
You missed my point. The US military has minority representation in excess of the general population. The current climate would lend itself to lower approval ratings just based upon that alone. Throw in some "Trumpisms", and voila.
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That is NOT the role of our military!
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It’s not the role of the federal government, not just the military. Like you said read your constitution. You will be shocked.
Not shocked at all. Where did I suggest that it was the role of the Federal government? Putting words in my mouth again to "win" an argument?
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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MountainMafia
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posted 09-08-2020 10:12 PM
Tip:
quote:
Putting words in my mouth again to "win" an argument?
I have no "need" to win an argument at all, but I have noticed a contradiction in your federalist tone.
When is comes to defending Trump's complete failure handling of covid that has resulted in the most infections and deaths by far of any country in the world you are more than eager to point out "States Rights" and responsibilities.
When it comes federal police agencies, fully masked, no insignia, unmarked vehicles, uninvited, unwanted, snatch people off the street and taken to who knows where there's this eerie federalist silence.
You can't have it both ways, Tip. Speak up or say nothing.
[ 09-08-2020, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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MountainMafia
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posted 09-09-2020 06:59 AM
Tip:
quote:
Throw in some "Trumpisms"
I was going to comment on this last night but mama hollered (literally) and told me to shut the computer off and come to bed....so, that was that.
Anyways, what is a Trumpism? Is that the same thing as "Trump being Trump"?...whatever that means.
It sounds like some kind of alternate universe where Trump can magically stop being the POTUS long enough to say something a crackhead couldn't imagine and then miraculously and instantaneously he is the POTUS again. Now, that is showing off some serious skills I have to admit.
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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handycat
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posted 09-09-2020 07:26 AM
quote:
You can't have it both ways, Tip. Speak up or say nothing.
I swear M&M, do you work at pissing people off or is it just an ability you were born with?
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MountainMafia
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posted 09-09-2020 07:51 AM
Nothing personal, hc....it never is.
Edit:
Just so you know, hc, I like Tip (and you). He's very intelligent and makes you earn every point in a debate. But like Tip has said himself you're going to be exposed to positions and ideas on this forum that will make you uncomfortable at times and nobody is obligated to participate.
[ 09-09-2020, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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handycat
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posted 09-09-2020 08:23 AM
M&M, I’m going to assume it was just an oversight on your part by not mentioning how intelligent I am.
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MountainMafia
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posted 09-09-2020 08:40 AM
Not really, hc. I just didn't want to state the obvious.
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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Tiptree
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posted 09-09-2020 10:05 AM
MM,
quote:
When it comes federal police agencies, fully masked, no insignia, unmarked vehicles, uninvited, unwanted, snatch people off the street and taken to who knows where there's this eerie federalist silence.
I may be wrong, because I hardly follow the news, but the only federal agents deployed were to protect a federal building (either in Portland, or Seattle... like I said, I don't follow the news). Those buildings (along with military bases, US Parks, US monuments, and foreign embassies) are U.S Federal property.
When and where were these masked (but, shouldn't they be masked?), insignia-less federal policemen deployed to snatch people?
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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MountainMafia
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posted 09-09-2020 12:20 PM
It happened in Portland a few weeks back. Plenty of articles about it on the internet.
Look, I know it is the federal government's right, and obligation, to protect federal property, but this is usually accomplished with the national guard, especially during protesting and particularly during riots. You don't send in some "secret federal police" when it was never requested, nor welcomed.
Anybody that defaces public or private property in any way should be brought to justice, no question.
This is where I believe the peaceful protesters, and there many, should turn their phone cameras on the ones committing these crimes and turn them over to police for prosecution instead of looking for any little mistake the police make...If you're against the violence then prove it by exposing it wherever it occurs, by not doing so makes you complicit and just as guilty.
Another thing that pissed me off to no end is the Seattle mayor's decision to have the police stand down and abandon a police district and just turn it over to protesters and rioters. That is the dumbest damn thing I've ever heard of and she should be thrown out of office. You, never, I mean never, do anything like that. Call in the national guard, request state and federal assistance if needed but never turn tail and cowardly run away.
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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Old Norm
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posted 09-09-2020 12:45 PM
web page
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Pray For Our Country!
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Tiptree
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posted 09-09-2020 02:30 PM
quote:
Look, I know it is the federal government's right, and obligation, to protect federal property, but this is usually accomplished with the national guard, especially during protesting and particularly during riots. You don't send in some "secret federal police" when it was never requested, nor welcomed.
Back to our federalism discussion, it is the duty of the governor of the state to deploy the National Guard, not the president. Since that clearly wasn't going to happen, the president deployed federal agents to protect the building.
Not a single state where serious rioting is happening has deployed the National Guard to stop it. Oh, and each and every one of those states has a democrat governor. Just sayin'.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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MountainMafia
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posted 09-09-2020 03:11 PM
The president can federalize the national guard whenever he chooses...remember the “backdoor draft” during the Iraq war where national guard were deployed to an actual foreign war zone.
quote:
Oh, and each and every one of those states has a democrat governor. Just sayin'
When all else fails blame it on the Democrats
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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Tiptree
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posted 09-09-2020 05:31 PM
Yes, the national guard can be mobilized by the president (or rather, by the Pentagon) to deploy overseas. But not within the US.
Again, Governors can call up the national guard to help with natural disasters, civil unrest, etc. But not the President. But the President can mobilize guard units for foreign deployments.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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MountainMafia
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posted 09-09-2020 07:46 PM
Tip:
quote:
Yes, the national guard can be mobilized by the president (or rather, by the Pentagon) to deploy overseas. But not within the US.
Link
Link
Link
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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