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Topic: Damn Hilary was suppose to
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 05-30-2020 09:57 PM
win and all this goes away:
also the attached news article is victor Hansen - well respected !
is it any wonder the Trump presidency had difficulty launching? That it did against all odds is testimony to the will of elected officials upholding the rule of law and therefore the will of the people. Seems to me the Obama group had only one complex and interwoven recourse once they began to learn their scheme would become known. They had to gamble it all---hoping the discrediting of Trump would take him down thus completing the cover-up. This is mind boggling in depth and scope. We have had a steady drip of this information during the last four years. So much so we have become desensitized. To now see it connected is to see how comprehensive the scope. We still have not seen the end of this. Ultimately, honest non partisan historians will portray this as one of the darkest times in United States history. While they're at it they will describe how Trump was his own worst enemy even while succeeding on so many fronts not the least of which was getting past the attempted take down,
For those who would advise this is but another example of conspiratorial thinking consider this is a compilation of information collected over a period of time and not from any one publication.
s it any wonder the Trump presidency had difficulty launching? That it did against all odds is testimony to the will of elected officials upholding the rule of law and therefore the will of the people. Seems to me the Obama group had only one complex and interwoven recourse once they began to learn their scheme would become known. They had to gamble it all---hoping the discrediting of Trump would take him down thus completing the cover-up. This is mind boggling in depth and scope. We have had a steady drip of this information during the last four years. So much so we have become desensitized. To now see it connected is to see how comprehensive the scope. We still have not seen the end of this. Ultimately, honest non partisan historians will portray this as one of the darkest times in United States history. While they're at it they will describe how Trump was his own worst enemy even while succeeding on so many fronts not the least of which was getting past the attempted take down,
For those who would advise this is but another example of conspiratorial thinking consider this is a compilation of information collected over a period of time and not from any one publication.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/obama-administration-scandals-co ming-to-light-legacy-in-tatters/
[ 05-30-2020, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
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ukcatfannfl
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MEL
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posted 05-30-2020 10:49 PM
Thank you ukc … there was sooooooo much done that there are a few things in there I forgot or never heard of !!! What a waste of our country's money and it won't end for a while. No one is perfect yet he so thought he was and it turns out if just 10% of that is true (which I believe there isn't 10% that isn't) it is crazy how much damage his administration has done to our country for years and years to come.
MEL
PS … MM does any of this count as a pass against President Obama and Hillary (that you asked me about in another thread) ??? Hope it won't for too much longer !!!
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 05-31-2020 10:22 AM
Mel this type of "truthfulness" does not fit the "lefts" agenda so doubt if any responses will be forthcoming ref this article. Truth tears up their narrative..
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ukcatfannfl
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MEL
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posted 05-31-2020 10:46 AM
So true ukc … I have always heard the way to piss of a lib dem is to tell them the truth !!! The way to piss off a conservative is to tell them a lie !!! You use to tell it with tongue in cheek, but now it is so much more true.
MEL
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 05-31-2020 11:03 AM
Mel history will show that the Obama administration was the most corrupt in history. They were so confident that Hilary would win that they didn't make much of an attempt to cover their wrongdoings up - she lost and now they are screwed!
Even seeing that, I will not call Obama names like some do to Trump on this board.
Fortunately, we Trump supporters have Obama's terrible history on our side as explained in detail in this article !
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ukcatfannfl
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MountainMafia
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posted 05-31-2020 06:28 PM
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Poor Baby
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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MountainMafia
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posted 05-31-2020 07:23 PM
I think we should end all socialist programs, starting with teachers pensions and government sponsored health care. I mean, teachers in public schools more than likely got their education through socialist programs like government subsidized public education.
What you say MEL?
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 05-31-2020 07:39 PM
Mel if the stimulus forgives college debt it will be a socialist program like MM says it is !!
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ukcatfannfl
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 05-31-2020 07:42 PM
The dems are praying for a miracle for 2020. Isn't gonna happen - trump in a landslide!
If they couldn't get Hilary elected with a corrupt administration using treason practices, these latest 3+ yrs democratic tricks aren't going to work either..
Reread the article here for those that believe otherwise..
[ 05-31-2020, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
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ukcatfannfl
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MEL
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posted 05-31-2020 07:47 PM
Oh hell MM why don't we just become another Venezuela and go to hell in a hand basket where we wait in line for a loaf of bread instead of getting to pick out a loaf of bread from a long line of different types of bread !!! Hell why we are at it let's just go full out socialist and let Hillary and her gang of thugs get even richer off (because we all know socialism for the most part like communism has 2 levels … one for the everyday citizen that works and then the elite that take from the normal citizens).
On second thought I think I will stay with what we have now … if you work hard enough and are good at what you do you reap the benefits and don't share with lazy ass people that just want everything damn thing given to them.
And I am sure if we go to a socialistic state then everyone from Hillary, oboma, pelosi and sanders will all share their wealth with us !!!
MEL
[ 05-31-2020, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: MEL ]
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MountainMafia
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posted 05-31-2020 07:55 PM
Are you ready to give up your socialist pension and healthcare or not, MEL?
[ 05-31-2020, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 05-31-2020 08:42 PM
Socialist - given for nothing'
Pension/hlt care = earn and pay in
You don't know the difference MM?
[ 05-31-2020, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
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ukcatfannfl
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MEL
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posted 06-01-2020 12:18 AM
I paid into my retirement MM … did you ??? I am also paying for my own health care.
MEL
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MountainMafia
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posted 06-01-2020 12:32 AM
What does“paid into” mean? Do you get Medicare and SS?
I paid taxes all my life to pay for gov’t jobs and benefits.
[ 06-01-2020, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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MEL
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posted 06-01-2020 12:35 AM
Just got on Medicare this month. Yes I get ss and I paid into it for 50 years and I would have more if they had let me invest it instead of use it all these years.
I paid into my retirement for over 34 years also.
MEL
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MountainMafia
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posted 06-01-2020 12:50 AM
Spin it anyway you like...my taxes help pay for it.
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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MEL
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posted 06-01-2020 01:31 AM
U wouldn't have to if they gave u a locked box like a lot of the Reps have wanted over the years. We pay into it and put it in the kind of investments we want (can't touch it till you are a certain age and then u get to open it up and it is yours) !!! No one can open it but u and u can only when you get a certain age or maybe disabled. No one can touch it and use it for other things either. It is yours and only yours. If you don't work you don't have the lock box !!!
MEL
[ 06-01-2020, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: MEL ]
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 06-01-2020 02:49 AM
The democrats gave away the ssn. As everyone knows.
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ukcatfannfl
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MountainMafia
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posted 06-01-2020 03:15 AM
When did they do that Ed?
[ 06-01-2020, 03:18 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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Old Norm
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posted 06-01-2020 09:00 AM
I can answer that one without even looking it up! Mister Lyndon Baines Johnson and his band of merry democrats, took it from the SSA trust fund and deposited it in the general fund. Guess what happened to it once it hit the general fund?
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Pray For Our Country!
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MEL
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posted 06-01-2020 09:47 AM
Exactly Norm !!!
And MM the only money I am getting from your taxes (if ant ... which I don't think you are) is because they have used all the money I have paid into the system !!! I paid my way but so many others have not and we are all paying for them !!! Besides I am still paying taxes so no you aren't paying for mine … I am.
What about the lock box idea ???
MEL
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 06-01-2020 11:08 AM
"What does“paid into” mean? Do you get Medicare and SS?'
Surely MM you are not that out of touch!
Everyone who works, but illegals, pay for SSN - Everyone that earns a salary and pay taxes pay Medicare.. - which means "earned"
Illegals of course and lots of others get Medicaid which is a "govt free" service! Your taxes does pay for that btw. which means "given"
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ukcatfannfl
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handycat
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posted 06-01-2020 12:01 PM
I’ve asked this question on several occasions and no one wants to answer it. I’ll try again.
For those of you whose wife did not work or made a very minimal amount and are drawing approximately half the amount you draw, I have a question for you. Why is my social security payments going to provide welfare for you and your wife? I have several friends that meet that criteria yet they all scream about why are we paying SS for people who didn’t contribute.
There are many inequities with any government run program. There are people who did not pay one red dime into SS and are drawing from it. You complain about them, why not in this case? I suspect there are several on this board that meet the above criteria, if so, you have no reason to complain IMO. You’re drawing a form of welfare . You are part of of the many problems with SS.
I predict there will be no responses to this.
[ 06-01-2020, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
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MountainMafia
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posted 06-01-2020 01:44 PM
" The Social Security Trust Fund has never been put into the general fund of the government and there was never any tax deduction."
Link
Link
Questions:
Who is in favor of privatizing SS?
Should there be a "means" test to determine eligibility?
Should the earnings cap for paying into SS be eliminated?
[ 06-01-2020, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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handycat
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posted 06-01-2020 06:14 PM
Very interesting links M&M! It sure doesn’t fit the narrative I chose to believe for years. I’m withholding judgement for now.
Articles I read now say they have not pilfered money from SS but “borrowed” it. Still makes me somewhat nervous when the government borrows anything.
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Tiptree
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posted 06-01-2020 06:28 PM
The money collected from SS taxes is first used to pay current beneficiaries. Then, any excess is given to the Treasury in exchange for bonds. That excess has been considerable over the years, and once converted to bonds, essentially goes into the general fund and is spent each year.
It is a scheme that would have made Bernie Madoff proud.
Right now, the SS taxes no longer cover the payments each year, so SS is cashing in bonds to cover the difference. Eventually (somewhere around 2040), they will have cashed in all the bonds they have, and SS will face a real crisis.
What Mel is pointing out is that instead of the ponzi scheme of taking contributions and paying current beneficiaries, it could have been a "lock box" system where each person's contributions (well, forced payments is a better term) would have been earmarked for use ONLY by the contributor. That would have incurred enormous up-front costs back in the 1930s to cover the initial beneficiaries who had made no contributions. But once established, it would effectively have been a forced 401K system, with defined contributions and fixed benefits.
Historically, had the "lock box" method been used, and had we been allowed to designate at least a part of our contributions to be directed to mutual funds, payouts would have been MUCH higher than we get today.
Am I in favor of a means test for SS? Yes, but only if it is turned into a lock-box. Then, it could serve as a substitute for 401K/403B plans for those who otherwise could not take advantage of them. I am in favor of taking taxes from all, but only allowing benefits to those who earn below a certain threshold, or who have a 401k/403b funded below a certain threshold. Benefit payments would phase out as the value of other retirement funds grows.
[ 06-01-2020, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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PaulCat
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posted 06-01-2020 07:45 PM
According to this site, almost 2/3 of the people who received SS payments in 2018 were under 65 years of age And the younger you were, the higher the average payout was. So SS has basically turned into welfare.
https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/chartbooks/fast_facts/2019/fast_facts19.html
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Tiptree
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posted 06-01-2020 08:14 PM
Paulcat,
I read through that site, and found nothing like what you wrote.
Here is one quote:
quote:
Sixty-three million beneficiaries were in current-payment status; that is, they were being paid a benefit. Seventy percent of those beneficiaries were retired workers and 14% were disabled workers. The remaining beneficiaries—almost 17%—were survivors or the spouses and children of retired or disabled workers.
And this:
quote:
About 67.9 million people received a payment from one or more programs administered by SSA. Most (59.8 million) received OASDI benefits only, 5.4 million received SSI only, and 2.7 million received payments from both programs.
Note that there are TWO very different programs run by the Social Security Administration: OASDI and SSI. OADSI is what most of us mean by Social Security -- it is what we "pay into" and then receive benefits from when we retire:
quote:
OASDI stands for old age, survivors, and disability Insurance
SSI is a different beast altogether:
quote:
Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is a Federal income supplement program funded by general tax revenues (not Social Security taxes): It is designed to help aged, blind, and disabled people, who have little or no income; and. It provides cash to meet basic needs for food, clothing, and shelter.
This is a MUCH smaller program than OADSI, and could indeed be considered a form of welfare. It is what we often refer to as the "safety net" for non-retirees.
Still not sure where you got the 2/3 number and the larger payouts.
[ 06-01-2020, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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PaulCat
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posted 06-01-2020 11:23 PM
Well that 'splains it, Tip. I was looking at the "SSI PROGRAM" tab on that link - not OASDI. It shows a chart based on age and about 4.9 million out of the 8+ million are under 65. 4.9/8+ is almost 2/3, right? LOL. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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MEL
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posted 06-02-2020 01:31 PM
Handy I will try and answer your question (no facts just an uneducated guess). I think the wives getting half of what the husband gets in SS started back when most ladies stayed at home and raised their kids and didn't go out into the work force. I totally understand that if that is when and why. I think them staying home was work in its self and yes they did get paid by raising their own kids and not farming them out to daycare centers and such. I know m wife stayed home and raised our two girls till they were both in school and we were on the short end of money during those years but wouldn't change a thing. She did an awesome job raising them and they have grown into wonderful young ladies because of their raising IMHO.
MEL
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MEL
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posted 06-02-2020 01:32 PM
Handy … don't go into the "Prediction" business anytime soon !!! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
MEL
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handycat
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posted 06-02-2020 04:36 PM
Mel, IMO, you are absolutely right. But how does that make it fair for your wife to draw a nice monthly check, while paying little or nothing into it, at the expense of others on SS?
I bet we all know of some woman who was never married, worked a menial job and draws a SS check that is less than adequate to exist. I know of at least two ladies that fit into this category. They were in the workforce and paid into SS their entire life. Yet in their latter days they simply can’t live without “welfare” to aid them. Their SS check is less than many spouses who never worked. Please take the time to explain to me how that is fair.
Yes, keeping a house, raising children etc is work. Hard work. I only wish my wife and I and many others had that opportunity. You and many other husbands enjoyed the benefits of a wife that didn’t work.
I firmly believe SS should be paid out to people based on how much that individual paid into it not how much their spouse paid into it. To do otherwise is nothing more than disguising another giveaway program.
Surely good conservatives everywhere are not in favor of giving money away based on how much money their spouse made. Or are they? Maybe they are only in favor of give away programs that benefit them? Pure speculation on my part.
There are many other inequities in the way SS is administered. This will never change. I realize that. It just irks me when I keep seeing posts all over social media sites saying something to the effect “quit calling my Social Security an entitlement, I paid for every dime of it”. Did you really?
SS should have been privatized years ago.
[ 06-02-2020, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 06-02-2020 05:28 PM
"Surely good conservatives everywhere are not in favor of giving money away based on how much money their spouse made. Or are they? "
Conservatives - ss is now a political issue?
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"quit calling my social security an entitlement, I paid for ever dime of I." Did you really?
I did as I only started paying into SS when I retired and became a LEO in FL. As a result, and since I paid in to it, I get a small ss ck each month. Mostly it pays for my medicare each month. So yes, I earned all of mine as did most primary breadwinners..
[ 06-02-2020, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
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ukcatfannfl
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handycat
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posted 06-02-2020 05:57 PM
quote:
So yes, I earned all of mine as did most primary breadwinners..
I would not argue with that statement. However, did the spouse of many of the primary breadwinner earn theirs?
I’m not finding fault with anyone who took advantage of a flaw in the system. In the same situation, I would do it as well. I certainly don’t mean to imply that i think it is wrong or immoral.
That still does not make it the correct way to administer the program. It’s a give away, pure and simple.
SS would be in a much better place today without this and other giveaways.
[ 06-02-2020, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
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handycat
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posted 06-02-2020 06:30 PM
Ukcatfan, I did not bring up the issue of SS on this thread
And yes, Social Security is and always has been a very political issue.
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 06-02-2020 06:43 PM
It appeared that you made it a "conservative" political issue..
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ukcatfannfl
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handycat
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posted 06-02-2020 06:57 PM
quote:
It appeared that you made it a "conservative" political issue..
That was not my intent. Conservatives and Liberals alike benefit from this. It just appears to me that it is primarily conservatives complaining about give away programs. I know I do. I reserve the right to complain about this one as well.
[ 06-02-2020, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 06-02-2020 07:07 PM
Absolutely handy and I reserve the right to question motives - when someone highlights Conservatives .
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ukcatfannfl
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handycat
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posted 06-02-2020 07:40 PM
I’ve reread all my posts on this thread twice to see where I “highlighted” conservative. I could not find it. I had my wife read through my posts. She could not find it.
Would you please point out where I highlighted conservative?
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 06-02-2020 07:53 PM
"Surely good conservatives everywhere are not in favor of giving money away based on how much money their spouse ma"
I consider that post is highlighting conseratives
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ukcatfannfl
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