|
Author
|
Topic: Bailouts
|
handycat
Player
Member # 2323
|
posted 03-24-2020 08:27 AM
I saw on Facebook that proposed bailouts would include the cruise line industry but almost all the major lines are based in other country’s. I thought that can’t be true. I did some light research and does appear to be accurate, including Disney, Carnival etc. Of course the reason is to avoid U S taxes. If true, I must be not understanding something.
Posts: 5402 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
GA Cat
Administrator
Member # 642
|
posted 03-24-2020 08:56 AM
Carnival and Royal Carribean are both headquartered in Miami.
I think the big reason for bailouts of cruise lines isn't the cruise lines themselves, the port workers, welders, and other skilled labor that is used to build and retool ships at dry dock ports like Mobile, etc. Not to mention all the workers at US ports that go into supplying these ships, etc at departure ports like Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Jacksonville, Tampa, Mobile, Galveston, New Orleans, Charleston, etc, etc.
--------------------
Born Blue, Always Blue
Kentucky Blue, that is...
Posts: 2256 | From: Atlanta, GA, USA | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged
|
|
handycat
Player
Member # 2323
|
posted 03-24-2020 09:17 AM
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cruise-ships-foreign-flags/
I have doubts about how accurate snopes is and I’m not sure what they mean when they say registered.
Other sites tell me Disney sails under the Bahamian flag while Carnival sails under the Panamian flag. Not sure what that means , maybe nothing.
IMO, any company that is doing this to avoid paying U S taxes regardless if they employ American workers, should not be entitled to bailouts. Then again, I’m generally opposed to bailouts, corporate or individuals. That’s why we have unemployment insurance etc. I know I’m in the minority in this and that’s ok.
Just sick and tired of everybody expecting the government to take care of everyone.
[ 03-24-2020, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posts: 5402 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
MEL
Player
Member # 141
|
posted 03-24-2020 10:21 AM
I am with you HC … both sides are adding stuff that is insane and has nothing to do with this crisis. Such as making sure that the people we hire (scientists and doctors) to help get through this are judged on their race and color not their credentials. I really want people working on cures because of their color of skin. Other things just as horrific are in their stimulus packages ![[Frown]](frown.gif) Idiots !!!
MEL
Posts: 2795 | From: Greeley, CO, USA | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
MountainMafia
Player
Member # 2066
|
posted 03-24-2020 10:24 AM
hc:
quote:
IMO, any company that is doing this to avoid paying U S taxes regardless if they employ American workers, should not be entitled to bailouts.
Lets not forget the repatriation of profits. Companies promised to bring back approx. 3 $TRILLION they had parked overseas to avoid taxes.
Even after they realized a windfall in the hundreds of $BILLIONS due to the permanent 40% tax cut and used primarily for stock buybacks, they have brought back less than half that amount.
So, seems like they still got plenty.
[ 03-24-2020, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
--------------------
"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844
|
posted 03-24-2020 12:23 PM
Cruise ships (and other ships that service the United States markets) register in other countries for economic reasons:
quote:
A ship registered in the US is governed by United States maritime law, which specifies the wages that must be paid to crew, the environmental safeguards that apply to waste disposal, the certifications for ships' officers and the right of passengers to take action against the cruise operator in a US court of law, to name just a few of the strictures.
A cruise operator might decide that they would rather operate under a less strict regime, and most do.
This means they register in another country and adopt a flag of convenience, and in the cruise industry the preferred flag is that of the Bahamas. Among other advantages, the Bahamas does not impose any tax on income. Any profit the cruise line makes is untaxed, neither is there any tax on capital gain if a vessel is sold at a profit.
--------------------
Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 13623 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844
|
posted 03-24-2020 12:25 PM
I am very much opposed to bailing out the cruise lines. Unlike airlines and hotels, they are purely for entertainment and leisure. Our economy depends on air travel and hotels, so some sort of "bailout" or life support during this crisis might be justified.
--------------------
Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 13623 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
|
|
MountainMafia
Player
Member # 2066
|
posted 03-24-2020 01:31 PM
Unfortunately, in this case we have no choice...we just absolutely can not let the economy collapse...just can't.
The "help" should come with strict requirements and oversight.
No Cash Grants...aka free money, no laying off employees, no stock buybacks, freeze executive pay and bonuses, etc, etc....
AND, bar any sitting member of congress and anyone seeking election (or reelection) for federal office from accepting contributions from companies that receive "help"....it would avoid the appearance of "kickbacks".
[ 03-24-2020, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
--------------------
"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844
|
posted 03-24-2020 02:13 PM
So, where do you draw the line? If you bail out cruise lines (a very, very tiny portion of our economy), do you also bail out restaurants? How about sporting goods stores? The NBA?
Fact it. In a moment of panic, and at all levels of government, the crackdowns and restrictions issued to cope with the corona virus have created a massive shock to our economy. There is no medicine strong enough, or immediate enough, to make the recovery fast. Spending trillions of dollars to bolster failing companies will cripple our already-hobbled future.
We dug this hole, and we can't get out.
--------------------
Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 13623 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
|
|
MountainMafia
Player
Member # 2066
|
posted 03-24-2020 02:28 PM
No, no....I totally agree with you on "non-essential" industries ( i.e, cruise lines), but the federal gov't can't just stand on the sidelines and watch while the country crumbles....gotta do sum'n, Tip!
[ 03-24-2020, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
--------------------
"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844
|
posted 03-24-2020 03:27 PM
OK. So, you are OK with the government first digging this massive economic hole, and then spending itself drunk trying to fix it?
Then, no more discussion/complaints by you about federal deficits or debts. Because the proposed "stimulus" bill will sink this ship.
--------------------
Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 13623 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
|
|
handycat
Player
Member # 2323
|
posted 03-24-2020 04:36 PM
Because the proposed "stimulus" bill will sink this ship.
Amen!
Posts: 5402 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
MountainMafia
Player
Member # 2066
|
posted 03-24-2020 04:49 PM
Tip:
quote:
OK. So, you are OK with the government first digging this massive economic hole, and then spending itself drunk trying to fix it?
To be honest, Tip....I ain't OK with chit until somebody convinces me that "I've got this".
--------------------
"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
MEL
Player
Member # 141
|
posted 03-24-2020 05:02 PM
This is all above my paygrade but I am starting to believe that Trump is totally correct in that we can't shut down the US … it would kill our economy to the point of no return !!! We have never shut down the US and IMHO we shouldn't now... take precautions yes but not shut down. We think people are in bad shape now without jobs where will we be when we shut down entire companies and industries and no one has a job ???
Again way above my paygrade but …
MEL
Posts: 2795 | From: Greeley, CO, USA | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
CatFanInYankeeville
Player
Member # 2025
|
posted 03-25-2020 11:11 PM
Here's my take. This 'quarantine' has been less effective than banning farts in elevators. Nobody is abiding by the rules, or at least a very small portion of people. Drive around, look at all the businesses that are open and deemed 'essential'. My wife, bless her, works for a park district. She runs the marketing department and is in charge of multiple programs. All those programs are, of course, closed. My wife, however, is deemed essential and still goes to the office 5x/week. Retail shops up here remain open. Bars are open for carryout food (you can even get packaged alcohol with that order of wings). I see the same number of cars on the road, generally. The quarantine is failing, and perhaps it's too far gone.
Now onto the economy. By shutting down dine-in places to eat and certain establishments for entertainment, you've gutted the economy. Airplanes are cris-crossing the country basically empty. The stock markets have tumbled, though there was a decent bounce back today, I predict it will fall further. IMHO, we're crippling the economy and mortgaging our future for little or no benefit. I know certain high-density population centers are being hit hard with covid cases, but the country as a whole is doing fairly well. I think Trump may be on to something, we've got to get things up and running in the next couple weeks or we may never recover from the damage being done to our economy.
--------------------
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian!” Henry Ford
Posts: 5563 | From: Eddyville at heart, Chicago in life | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
ukcatfannfl
Player
Member # 1425
|
posted 03-25-2020 11:34 PM
THIS IS WHY THE STIMULUS PACKAGE DID NOT PASS.
AS OF TODAY 3/23/2020
Facts that are holding up the stimulus package:
Can you believe that we are in a crisis and politicians add this CRAP wish list to derail the negotiations?
Nancy Pelosi Proposes 1,400-Page Coronavirus Bill Stuffed with Special Interest Goodies
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi debuted a 1,120-page coronavirus rescue bill that tanked the Senate proposal on Sunday night.
The bill includes a wish list of Democrats' pet issues including:
Increased fuel emission standards for airlines receiving funds and carbon offsets:
(1) IN GENERAL. Not later than 90 days after the enactment of this Act, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall require each air carrier receiving assistance under section 101, to fully offset the annual carbon emissions of such air carriers for domestic flights beginning in 2025.
..
(1) IN GENERAL. The Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall require each air carrier receiving assistance under section 101 to:(A) make and achieve a binding commitment to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions attributable to the domestic flights of such air carrier in every calendar year, beginning with 2021, on a path consistent with a 25 percent reduction in the aviation sector's emissions from 2005 levels by 2035, and a 50 percent reduction in the sector's emissions from 2005 levels by 2050, applying the standards, recommended practices, and guidance agreed to by the United States pursuant to the European Union Emissions Trading Scheme Prohibition Act of 2011
Payment for up to $10,000 in student loans:(1) MINIMUM STUDENT LOAN RELIEF AS A RESULT OF THE COVID-19 NATIONAL EMERGENCY. Not later than 270 days after the last day of the COVID-19 emergency period, the Secretaries concerned shall jointly carry out a program under which a qualified borrower, with respect to the covered loans and private education of loans of such qualified borrower, shall receive in accordance with paragraph (3) an amount equal to the lesser of the following:(A) The total amount of each covered loan and each private education loan of the borrower; or
(B) $10,000.
Same-day voter registration, early voting, voting by mail, ballot harvesting
The bill includes several provisions on voting laws and regulations, as Democrats argue that the crisis should force the government to revisit voting regulations to make it easier to vote, allowing same-day voter registration and voting by mail, and mailing out ballots to absentee voters. Other voting fraud watchdogs raised flags about ballot harvesting and grans for conducting risk-limiting audits of election results
PART 8-GRANTS FOR CONDUCTING RISK- LIMITING AUDITS OF RESULTS OF ELECTIONS ''SEC. 298. GRANTS FOR CONDUCTING RISK-LIMITING AUDITS OF RESULTS OF ELECTIONS.
'(a) AVAILABILITY OF GRANTS.-The Commission shall make a grant to each eligible State to conduct risk-limiting audits as described in subsection (b) with respect to the regularly scheduled general elections for Federal office held in November 2020 and each succeeding election for Federal office.
Preserving collective bargaining powers for unions
Several provisions in the bill include carveouts for big labor, including labor protections, collective bargaining, and organizing, as well as overturning President Trump's executive orders regarding federal employee unions.
The expansion of wind and solar tax credits.Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and other lawmakers specifically called out Democrats for trying to negotiate the expansion of wind and solar tax credits in the bill.
Requirements for federal and corporate gender and racial diversity data
The bill demands that corporate recipients of financial assistance are required to report racial and gender data regarding salaries, number of employees, supplier diversity, and membership on corporate boards. It also requires federal agencies to use businesses and financial institutions owned by minorities or women.
Post Office Bailout
UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE PAYMENT TO POSTAL SERVICE FUND
For payment to the ''Postal Service Fund'', for revenue forgone due to the coronavirus pandemic, $20,000,000,000, to remain available until September 30, 2022: Provided, That such amount is designated by the Congress as being for an emergency requirement pursuant to section 251(b)(2)(A)(i) of the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985.
Automatic extension of nonimmigrant visas.
Rep. Paul Gosar flagged a provision regarding the automatic extension of nonimmigrant visas.(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, with respect to any alien whose nonimmigrant status, status under section 244 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1254a), or employment authorization has expired within the 30 days preceding the date of the enactment of this act, or will expire not later than one year after such date, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall automatically extend such status or work authorization for the same time period as the alien's prior status or work authorization.
Restricting colleges from providing information about citizenship status
(1) INFORMATION.-Only information requested
On the official 2020 decennial census of population form may be provided to the Bureau of the Census pursuant to this section. No institution of higher education may provide any information to the Bureau on the immigration or citizenship status of any individual.
Money for Planned Parenthood
The Hill reported that Democrats want the bill to prop up Planned Parenthood, just another reason why bipartisan efforts have failed to reach a consensus.
READ IT AND WEEP.
--------------------
ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8771 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
handycat
Player
Member # 2323
|
posted 03-26-2020 07:32 AM
I’m full of unpopular opinions and other things as well. IMO, people who are not finically impacted by this pandemic should not be part of the bailout. That includes almost everybody that is on social security. I suspect the vast majority of us on SS are not monetarily impacted. As a matter of fact, i’m spending far less money as I set home watching Judge Judy. IMO, those of us on SS should have to prove we’re financially impacted before we are eligible.
I’m by no means wealthy and yes, I will take the money. I would like to think I would use it to benefit others. In reality, the majority of it will be used for every day expenses. When you’re locked down, you can’t do anything else with it.
I guess it’s no big deal, just keep printing money.
[ 03-26-2020, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posts: 5402 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Old Norm
Administrator
Member # 1482
|
posted 03-26-2020 08:23 AM
I totally agree with HC, so I guess my opinion is unpopular as well. This has not affected my income one iota, and like handy said, I don't spend any money sitting here on my duff.
--------------------
Pray For Our Country!
Posts: 36270 | From: Western KY | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
MountainMafia
Player
Member # 2066
|
posted 03-26-2020 10:00 AM
CFIY:
quote:
The quarantine is failing
Here's why:
quote:
Nobody is abiding by the rules
People are treating being out of school, or sent home to work or whatever, as a "snow day"...still frolicking around, intermingling as if life is just fine. Like I said, people are stupid!
Ed:
quote:
Nancy Pelosi Proposes 1,400-Page Coronavirus Bill Stuffed with Special Interest Goodies
I agree this is BS, but what does Nancy Pelosi have to do with how the Senate votes?
hc:
quote:
IMO, people who are not finically impacted by this pandemic should not be part of the bailout. I’m by no means wealthy and yes, I will take the money. I would like to think I would use it to benefit others.
I completely agree also. I could always use a few extra bucks but I don't need it.
However, I do have an aunt that is battling lung cancer that could use it. She is 80, lives alone, worked hard all her life and is fiercely independent.
She draws less than $1100 a month SS. With the added cost of her cancer she's barely surviving financially. I send her a little money here and there to help out...I will be sending her any "bailout" money I get.
--------------------
"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
CatFanInYankeeville
Player
Member # 2025
|
posted 03-26-2020 10:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by handycat:
IMO, people who are not finically impacted by this pandemic should not be part of the bailout.
I agree. Being a paramedic, my job is perhaps more secure now than ever before. I'm working my normal hours (and turning down offered overtime). Any bailout money I get will go either towards a retirement account or guns/ammo. I'm not going to use it for every day expenses, but with the markets in the toilet like they have been recently, 1200 bucks would buy a lot of stuff.
--------------------
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian!” Henry Ford
Posts: 5563 | From: Eddyville at heart, Chicago in life | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
ukcatfannfl
Player
Member # 1425
|
posted 03-26-2020 10:57 AM
"I agree this is BS, but what does Nancy Pelosi have to do with how the Senate votes?"
MM I suppose cause it is a house bill loaded with a wish list full of add ons?
--------------------
ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8771 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
MountainMafia
Player
Member # 2066
|
posted 03-26-2020 11:41 AM
It was 4 republican senators that threatened to hold up the bill: Lindsey Graham, Tim Scott, Ben Sasse and Rick Scott.
They argued that laid off workers that receive workman's comp. and the weekly $600 from the feds was excessive...with all this money coming in they would not want to go back to work.
But the $600 is temporary...4 months.
No mention of the $500Bn "slush fund" set aside for business bailout.
--------------------
"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Old Norm
Administrator
Member # 1482
|
posted 03-26-2020 11:53 AM
Business bailout? Who do you think pays all these workers when they are not laid off? If it wasn't for these businesses, which could indeed go under without help, we'd be back to an agrarian society like 150 years ago. I don't know about you, but I've had enough hoeing corn, putting up hay, slopping hogs and milking cows to do me for the rest of my life. Where do you think we'd be without businesses?
--------------------
Pray For Our Country!
Posts: 36270 | From: Western KY | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
MountainMafia
Player
Member # 2066
|
posted 03-26-2020 12:43 PM
Norm:
quote:
Who do you think pays all these workers when they are not laid off?
Ummmm...OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here so don't laugh...I'm gonna say BUSINESS! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I didn't say don't help business...we have no choice, we have to. That's been my position all along. The federal gov't can not just sit on the sidelines and do nothing, or not enough.
Business will get theirs...they always do, and always more than they need.
Just saying if we're going to talk about excess I think it would make more sense to start with where the BIG money is going.
--------------------
"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
MEL
Player
Member # 141
|
posted 03-26-2020 01:19 PM
How is everyone doing during this ???
I work part time and got sent home a week ago but I am good financially right now.
Our governor just issued stay at home order that began at 6am this morning so I went out to Wally World at 5:45 (lol) just to find out they had changed their hours to 7am. Went back and got a few things so I am good for a good long while as far as food and essentials.
My daughter who is an CSI said the next step is a "Shelter In Place" which would devastate this state beyond belief (means you can't get out for essentials). Only medical issues. Only people that would have jobs that could get out would be Police, Fire and Ambulance and a few others well and of course the Politian's (they aren't going to miss a pay check). People would be losing their pay checks and possibly their jobs. Our economy would be ripped apart and it is already way to expensive to live here as it is.
On a brighter note … I am healthy and have plenty of food and TP
Hope everyone is doing well
MEL
[ 03-26-2020, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: MEL ]
Posts: 2795 | From: Greeley, CO, USA | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
Old Norm
Administrator
Member # 1482
|
posted 03-26-2020 01:23 PM
I just don't understand you. You strike me as an intelligent fella, but you don't seem to get it. In the post before, you called it a "slush fund". Then when I call you on it, you say "I didn't say don't help business". It seems to me that you keep switching sides, just to keep your argument going. I wish I could talk to you in person, so I could see if you are winking after some of your statements. I realize that you think it's just too much money going to business, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere.
--------------------
Pray For Our Country!
Posts: 36270 | From: Western KY | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
MEL
Player
Member # 141
|
posted 03-26-2020 01:30 PM
Norm without going back through all of these posts … what do you think about shutting down the country ??? I am with Trump in that we have to keep it open so we don't regress back to the depression or actually worse.
MEL
Posts: 2795 | From: Greeley, CO, USA | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
Old Norm
Administrator
Member # 1482
|
posted 03-26-2020 02:21 PM
If we shut down the country, the economy will tank so badly that it may never make it back. Even my income, military retirement and SSA, could be affected. In other words, we'd be in deep do-do.
--------------------
Pray For Our Country!
Posts: 36270 | From: Western KY | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
MEL
Player
Member # 141
|
posted 03-26-2020 02:41 PM
My thoughts exactly … most of the governors won't listen to or work with Trump and it is going to throw us way back to worse than depression days and it won't even be close. My parents grew up during that and it was horrible in so many ways. We won't have to have Bernie take us into socialism … we will be waiting in lines for bread and so forth without him and his dumb ass ideas (my opinion of him). Oh yeah and gas rationing cards of course we won't have any $$$ to travel.
MEL
[ 03-26-2020, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: MEL ]
Posts: 2795 | From: Greeley, CO, USA | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
handycat
Player
Member # 2323
|
posted 03-26-2020 03:50 PM
I am with Trump in that we have to keep it open so we don't regress back to the depression or actually worse. MEL
Me too. I don’t like it and I fear it will cause many more deaths than continuing what we are doing at the present.
However, I will never argue with anyone who has the opposite opinion. It would be a tough, tough decision.
Mel, what state do you live in? Out west somewhere I think.
As far as how i’m Doing. My wife just said that if I don’t get off my computer and help with the dish’s, she’ll slam my head on the keyboard, but I think she’s just jokingdrehykmhgtg’u”gt8&Dyefb,.loyrsx
[ 03-26-2020, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posts: 5402 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
MountainMafia
Player
Member # 2066
|
posted 03-26-2020 03:50 PM
Norm:
quote:
If we shut down the country, the economy will tank so badly that it may never make it back. Even my income, military retirement and SSA, could be affected. In other words, we'd be in deep do-do.
So, are you for the bailouts or not? I'm as confused as you are.
--------------------
"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Old Norm
Administrator
Member # 1482
|
posted 03-26-2020 03:58 PM
I think a bailout is getting somebody (or business) out of a mess they got themselves into. They didn't get themselves into this, so yes I am all for keeping them afloat. They should not profit from it in any way. Just throw them a life preserver. Is that plain enough for you? You don't need to keep quizzing me. You know exactly where I stand.
--------------------
Pray For Our Country!
Posts: 36270 | From: Western KY | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
MountainMafia
Player
Member # 2066
|
posted 03-26-2020 04:03 PM
Norm:
quote:
You don't need to keep quizzing me. You know exactly where I stand.
I do now....finally!
--------------------
"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844
|
posted 03-26-2020 08:02 PM
The government has created an imminent economic disaster by shutting the country down. Now, the government wants to spend $2T to "fix" it.
While I hope it does help, I still see massive economic disruption and bankruptcies. AND, it is just adding to the misery of our children and grandchildren as THEY deal with the massive federal debt.
BTW, Ed is spot on. The ridiculous riders that the dems added to the bill in the House were rightly rejected by the Senate Really? In this time of medical and economic crisis, the dems want to add carbon-emission standards for airlines? And solar panel subsidies? And other classic democratic BS that they could not pass on their own merits?
The democrats should be ashamed, and in fact, should be censured. This is NOT the time to hold up what is, sadly, much-needed economic stimulus.
--------------------
Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 13623 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
|
|
MountainMafia
Player
Member # 2066
|
posted 03-26-2020 09:03 PM
Tip:
quote:
The government has created an imminent economic disaster by shutting the country down. Now, the government wants to spend $2T to "fix" it.
Even if just throwing money at it would "fix" it, $2T won't be nearly enough.
quote:
While I hope it does help, I still see massive economic disruption and bankruptcies. AND, it is just adding to the misery of our children and grandchildren as THEY deal with the massive federal debt.
Agree 100%!
quote:
BTW, Ed is spot on. The ridiculous riders that the dems added to the bill in the House were rightly rejected by the Senate Really? In this time of medical and economic crisis, the dems want to add carbon-emission standards for airlines? And solar panel subsidies? And other classic democratic BS that they could not pass on their own merits?
This was all about leverage...a move to give senate democrats a better negotiating position with senate republicans and the WH...a threat to hold it up in the house.
Trump and the repubs are more desperate to pass the "help" than the dems...they're in power and have the most to lose.
quote:
The democrats should be ashamed, and in fact, should be censured. This is NOT the time to hold up what is, sadly, much-needed economic stimulus.
If you have been following Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump the last few years you know what dirty and crooked politics looks like...it ain't pretty, and has nothing to do with doing the right thing...it's about power!...and it don't matter what the circumstances are.
quote:
The government has created an imminent economic disaster by shutting the country down.
I tell ya Tip...I think we're in deep sh!t man...seriously!
[ 03-26-2020, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
--------------------
"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
ukcatfannfl
Player
Member # 1425
|
posted 03-26-2020 09:49 PM
"f you have been following Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump the last few years you know what dirty and crooked politics looks like...it ain't pretty, and has nothing to do with doing the right thing...it's about power!...and it don't matter what the circumstances are."
MM for example? curious
--------------------
ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8771 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Old Norm
Administrator
Member # 1482
|
posted 03-26-2020 10:47 PM
I expect you'll get some Snopes, MSNBC and CNN quotes Ed!
--------------------
Pray For Our Country!
Posts: 36270 | From: Western KY | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ukcatfannfl
Player
Member # 1425
|
posted 03-26-2020 11:02 PM
![[Wink]](wink.gif) Norm
--------------------
ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8771 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
MountainMafia
Player
Member # 2066
|
posted 03-26-2020 11:03 PM
That’s more sources than some folks have....some only have Trump.
--------------------
"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
MEL
Player
Member # 141
|
posted 03-27-2020 12:04 AM
Handy I live in Colorado and the only reason I moved here two years ago from Texas was to be near my two grandkids. I do live in a Second Amendment Sanctuary county where the sheriff basically said there is no way in hell we will come for your guns. Check out what our governor Polis did before he became governor (hint he changed his name to hide something). Either people were too stupid to check it out or didn't care what he did. The Denver city council has a self proclaimed communist on it who made a statement that said something like if I get coronavirus I will go to a MAGA rally and infect as many people as I can... should have been kicked out on the spot. A form of domestic terrorism but said later that she wasn't being serious (tongue in cheek or something like that... BS). The state government has held many late night meetings that no one was supposed to find out about to pass different bills. My county had a recall going on a commissioner that didn't vote the way the county told her to but she resigned before it was over due to some illness or something (the illness was the county was sick of her not representing us the way we voted on different items).
I will stop now … I get so riled up over these DA's
MEL
Posts: 2795 | From: Greeley, CO, USA | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic