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Author
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Topic: Trump and Saudia Arabia.
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 11-21-2018 10:12 AM
What the hell! Pretty sure I will be in the minority, at least on this board, but I think as a country we are, or should be, better than that. At the very least we should be strongly codeming them. Once again, the POTUS refuses to believe his own intelligence agencies.
Posts: 5403 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 11-21-2018 01:20 PM
quote:
Once again, the POTUS refuses to believe his own intelligence agencies.
The intel is correct and he knows it...but, by refusing to listen to the recording of Khashoggi being brutally murdered and dismembered, Trump is able to distance himself from the evidence. Why? With enough skeletons in his closet to be considered a mass grave....Who knows?
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 11-21-2018 03:04 PM
I personally think what the Saudi's did to this man is none of our business and feel that they are too strong an ally to be deserting over this incident which had absolutely nothing to do with us as a nation. The Saudi's considered this man a traitor to their country and took what they considered to be necessary action to contain him. As a country, they have come a long way over the past thirty years but as we all know, they still have a long way to go to meet Western standards.
I remember being in Saudi Arabia back in the sixties when they were having a woman stoned to death by the other women of the town because she committed adultry. At least they have started letting women get drivers licenses and drive cars now, that is a long way from their stoning to death ways fo the sixties.
I don't blame Trump for not wanting to listen to the tape of a man being murdered. He has put sanctions on 17 Saudi's, to me that is all that is necessary under these circumstances. Were this man an American citizen, circumstances would be different. He was a Saudi citizen and how they deal with their citizens is none of our business unless they start mass murdering etc.
This man was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, a terrorist organization. Why we even let him in our country is beyond my comprehension.
[ 11-21-2018, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: SCWC ]
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Old Norm
Administrator
Member # 1482
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posted 11-21-2018 04:33 PM
I'm with SCWC. Why didn't we go to war with China when Mau Tse Tung was in charge? He only killed 45 million.
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Pray For Our Country!
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 11-21-2018 06:35 PM
I agree with you Ray - killing is sad but not our business as we are not the world's police. It didn't happen on our soil, or on our property nor by Americans..
let the ones responsible and where it happen do what they think is right..
I heard a lot of about our meddling and this is a case of just that..
Good post Ray
p.s. I was in Saudi (Dharan) and other places in the 80's and no need to lock ur door at night cause if one stole then he had his hand cut off in the public square.. Different world folks!
[ 11-21-2018, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
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ukcatfannfl
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 11-22-2018 08:04 AM
SCWC, I waited a day to reply to your post and I'm glad I did. After reading your post and thinking about it, I agree with most if not all of your post.
I sometimes, actually quite frequently, let my distaste of Donald Trump override my good judgement.
I suppose I'm being a little naive to expect a mid eastern country to embrace the standards of our country. However, I sometime question our country's standards.
I'm not a particularly religious person but do consider myself a Christian. In a heated political discussion with a very religious friend of mine, he asked me what I thought Chist would do if he was walking the earth today on the subject we were discussing. To say the least, that gave me something to think about.
[ 11-22-2018, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posts: 5403 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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boomdaddy
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Member # 2644
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posted 11-22-2018 08:30 AM
I don't get the outrage about the saudi that was killed by the Saudis on what, Turkish soil?
He is not an American.
It didn't happen in America or in or on an American Embassy.
It is beyond my comprehension, why this is even an issue.
We have a massive, well funded, mob of intruders that also happen to be supported by our southern neighbor, poised to invade our country as a political statement. The left sues the Trump administration, taking their case in front of an Obama appointed judge, just like all the other immigration issues that they have sued about, since he has been elected. And, people in this country want to worry about one damn arab who was killed by other arabs?
By the way, even if the guy wasn't a memeber of the muslim brother hood, I still wouldn't give two shakes that he was killed by other Saudis.
[ 11-22-2018, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: boomdaddy ]
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 11-22-2018 11:24 AM
Handy, there are two of us on this forum that have lived and worked in the middle east, UKCatfanfl and myself. It is a totally different world they live in and they live by customs that are thousands of years old. Islamism still live and operate in the dark ages. Our media made it out like this man was a Journalist. He did do some anti Saudi Arabia articles for the Washington Post but he was not a professional journalist. I do not approve of killing anyone but as we all know, the Muslim world march to the beat of a different drummer than most of us do.
Some 50 plus year later I can still see the woman in Saudia Arabia that committed adultery being stoned to death by the other women of the town, a vision that will never leave me. They have made some strides toward the civilized way of life but still have a long way to go to catch up to Western standards.
To me, this is not an American problem, this situation is a Saudi Arabian event which has no bearing on us as a country.
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Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844
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posted 11-22-2018 12:25 PM
100% agree, SCWC and Ed. This is none of our business, and we have no culpability in this. Why would anybody think otherwise?
If Trump would keep his mouth shut and let his policies and actions do his talking, he would be much, much more highly regarded. Too bad he can't control his mouth (or his twitter fingers). But he has taken bold steps that I consider essential to restoring some sense to a world that had drifted into the hazy, hallucinogenic dreams of "a new world order". As we watch the Soviet Union collapse, and now the the EU slowly disintegrating, perhaps it is time to admit that the "new world order" was propped up mostly by the US, and most of the beneficiaries didn't carry their share.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 11-22-2018 03:35 PM
hc,
quote:
I'm not a particularly religious person but do consider myself a Christian. In a heated political discussion with a very religious friend of mine, he asked me what I thought Chist would do if he was walking the earth today on the subject we were discussing. To say the least, that gave me something to think about
A thought worthy of the effort, hc.
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 11-25-2018 02:57 PM
I agree with everybody...we should keep our mouth shut about human rights..from now on anyway...'cause, turns out, we ain't all that.
Khashoggi was a legal resident of this country, worked for an American company, had/has three children who are United States citizens...that are banned from leaving Saudi Arabia.
Khashoggi's son was forced to shake the hand of the man who ordered his father's murder....in public.
Saudi's referred to him as an "enemy of the state"...sound familiar?
When America quits doing what's right the world is f****d!
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
Posts: 4694 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 11-25-2018 04:20 PM
His children are as much American citizens as are the Chinese women who are brought in to this country to have their babies and then shipped back to china, Done so when the children are of a legal age they can sponsor their parents. terrible loop hole in our immigration policy..
Not sure I believe Saudi keeping Americans against their will btw..
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ukcatfannfl
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SCWC
Player
Member # 2464
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posted 11-25-2018 06:46 PM
quote:
I suppose I'm being a little naive to expect a mid eastern country to embrace the standards of our country. However, I sometime question our country's standards. quote:
Still trying to figure out what you are implying with that statement Handy??????? We live in the greatest country in the world and nothing that has happened in recent years has changed any of that. We have been involved in the ways of life of too many countries over the years, especially in Afghanistan and Iraq, two places we should never have waged war in my opinion. I always felt we should never have used anything but special forces, bombed the mountains of Tora Bora and if we could not find Ben Laden there then, keep special forces doing their bidding until he was dead. Look at the trillions of dollars we have spent in that area and the lives we have lost forever as the result of our actions. We armed and backed the Taliban for 12 years as they fought the Russians,armed and backed Iraq for many years in their war with Iran etc. Politics seems to make strange bed partners from time to time.
quote:
When America quits doing what's right the world is f****d! quote:
Thank goodness we are starting to quit being the policemen of the world. .
[ 11-25-2018, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: SCWC ]
Posts: 17777 | From: Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: Jun 2005
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 11-25-2018 08:20 PM
[QUOTE]Still trying to figure out what you are implying with that statement Handy??????? [/QUOTE
I agree that we live in the greatest country in the world.
I was simply trying to say that I don't believe the U S government when it tells us what are standards are or should be. I'm not a conspiracy theory believer but I think much of what our government tells us is pure BS just like Saudia Arabia and most other countries. Not in anyway implying the present administration is better or worse than those in the past.
Posts: 5403 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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SCWC
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Member # 2464
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posted 11-26-2018 01:57 AM
I agree totally Handy, thanks for clarifying that for me.
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 11-26-2018 02:53 PM
For what it is worth Handy I have lived in 14 countries, travelled and lived (for short periods) in almost 100 more and No country I repeat no country is even a little bit better than ours... In the past there were a few that were very good places to live but the Muslims migrated to Europe and the Russians invaded Asia so they are all gone now...
For example did u hear about the riots in downtown Paris - many places on fire portrayed by the media (here) as over gas prices but in truth it is because of the carbon tax imposed on by their leader using the climate accords as his reasoning.
Good thing we pulled out of the treaty or Trump would be blamed for (possible) price increases as all countries in the treaty are supposed to do the same as France....
Our media will never report negative on the accords so they just say "increase gas prices" not mentioned the 40% carbon tax...
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ukcatfannfl
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 11-26-2018 04:08 PM
quote:
For what it is worth Handy I have lived in 14 countries, travelled and lived (for short periods) in almost 100 more and No country I repeat no country is even a little bit better than ours...
I have lived in Kentucky. Lots of people think that is a third world country.😊
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Old Norm
Administrator
Member # 1482
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posted 11-26-2018 05:06 PM
For what its worth, when I retired from the military 41+ years, I moved to Kentucky by choice. Yes, I did have relatives here, but also, it is the least expensive place I have ever lived as an adult. For instance, rent, which I don't pay, in this little town is about half that in larger towns in this area.
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Pray For Our Country!
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handycat
Player
Member # 2323
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posted 11-26-2018 06:03 PM
I only have two requests when I die. That my ashes be buried in Kentucky and they sing my "Old Kentucky Home" at my funeral. May not be anyone show up but I can dream.
[ 11-26-2018, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 11-26-2018 06:31 PM
I only got one request when I die....be somewhere else.
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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handycat
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Member # 2323
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posted 11-26-2018 06:43 PM
I think I'll change mine, I like your idea better.
Posts: 5403 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 11-27-2018 08:04 PM
MM said:
Khashoggi was a legal resident of this country, worked for an American company, had/has three children who are United States citizens...that are banned from leaving Saudi Arabia.
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not true
Khashoggi is actually NOT a green card holder, in the US as the left was reporting.
Khashoggi was only visiting the US on a visa.
Mohamad Soltan, an Egyptian-American activist who sees Khashoggi regularly in Washington, told Reuters that Khashoggi was in the United States on an O-visa, a temporary residency visa awarded to foreigners “who possess extraordinary ability” in the sciences, arts, education, and other fields and are recognized internationally, and had applied for permanent residency status.
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FYI: there are many visas that get u in the US temporarily His was but one...
[ 11-27-2018, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
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ukcatfannfl
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 11-28-2018 06:47 AM
I didn't say he had a green card? What's your point?
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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ukcatfannfl
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Member # 1425
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posted 11-28-2018 09:14 AM
"legal resident" generally implies a green card . That is what I meant MM Really you dont understand that>?
The point!! your statement is incorrect!
[ 11-28-2018, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
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ukcatfannfl
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MountainMafia
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Member # 2066
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posted 11-28-2018 11:16 AM
[QUOTE]FYI: there are many visas that get u in the US temporarily His was but one... [QUOTE]
IOW...Khashoggi temporarily resided in the US legally.
Khashoggi was living in the United States on an “O” visa, according to his employer the Washington Post. Also known as the “genius” visa, the O offers individuals of “extraordinary ability and achievement” temporary residence for up to three years.
What does his immigration status have to do with anything?
[ 11-28-2018, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: MountainMafia ]
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"It's amazing what you can accomplish when nobody cares who gets the credit"....Tubby Smith after winning 1998 National Title.
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 11-28-2018 11:25 AM
MM said
Khashoggi was a legal resident of this country, worked for an American company, had/has three children who are United States citizens...that are banned from leaving Saudi Arabia.
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This statement by you implies that we should have done something because of his status in the US.
Simply not true as he has nothing to do with the US... Saudi and Turkey prb not ours..
Alsoo he has(d) ties with The Muslim brotherhood which makes him at least NOT a friend of the US..
Further if you put ur faith in the talking heads of CNN then you can bet whatever they are saying is determinable to Trump and when he opposes them, he generally knows what he is talking about.
Your statments are generally CNN talking points so why do u continue to make statements if you don't know what they mean!!
[ 11-28-2018, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
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ukcatfannfl
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