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Author Topic: Play for pay in college sports.
handycat
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posted 05-04-2022 03:03 PM      Profile for handycat   Email handycat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In other words NIL. I detest it in its current form. It will give the Universities with rabid fan bases and boosters with deep pockets (such as us) a huge and unfair advantage.

In its current form, at least the way I understand it, it has too many loopholes for unscrupulous boosters.

I’m thrilled Oscar is coming back but I am shocked an “amateur” athlete is going to make two to five million dollars, room, board, and a free education for playing basketball in college. He would be a fool to go to the NBA. It’s not just us, It’s happening at other universities and other sports as well. Especially the basketball and football Blue Bloods.

Between NIL and the transfer portal, we may not recognize college athletics in a very short time. Will the next #1 recruit make his decision based on how much NIL money he can get? Or has he?Maybe we should hope Elon becomes a Wildcat fan.

I’m not against college athletes receiving some financial compensation. I am against NIL in its current form. IMO, the NCAA needs to step in immediately and set strict guidelines. I don’t trust the NCAA to do the right thing but I can wish.

I’m reluctant to post this as I admit to having limited knowledge on the subject. However, I’ve never let ignorance stop me from expressing an opinion. I’m sure the good folks on here will set me straight with whatever misinformation I have.

Rant over for now, but I reserve the right to piss and moan about this issue in the future.

[ 05-04-2022, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]

Posts: 5079 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Tiptree
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posted 05-04-2022 05:09 PM      Profile for Tiptree   Email Tiptree   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pretty sure the NIL exists only because of a lawsuit. The NCAA sure didn't want to do it. And it isn't "pay for play". The university isn't paying these kids. The earn it from selling their merchandise. Very different thing!

Nobody begrudges Pop stars of the same age who make their millions. Teenage TikTok and Instagram "influencers" make their millions. Kids set up YouTube channels and make their millions. The cat is out of the bag. The courts have ruled that kids have the right to earn money off of their fame. There ain't no turning back.

College sports existed for decades as a fairly "pure" endeavor, but way before NIL, big money corrupted both football and basketball across the board. The difference is in the degree... paying $100,000 for a recruit is small change now.

The one good thing about NIL is schools will no longer be under pressure to pay for talent; they can come to a school like UK and earn plenty of money while they play. In fact, it just might lead to the end of the one-and-done AND the g-league route. Oscar will be a bellweather for just how profitable the NIL can be. If a kid can come to college and get millions per year playing ball, imagine the possibilities for building a team of 4-year 5-star players!

You are correct, though. This will benefit the blue-blood programs immensely. If a talent like Steph Curry were to go to Davidson today, the NIL money would be slim to none. But if he went to UK, or Duke, or Kansas... boom! Tons of NIL money awaits him.

[ 05-04-2022, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]

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Tiptree

Posts: 12498 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
handycat
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posted 05-04-2022 06:43 PM      Profile for handycat   Email handycat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn’t mean to imply that the NCCA implemented or even wanted NIL but I think they have the authority to put more stringent guidelines in and IMO, they need to.

I believe it will make the inequalities of talent in college basketball even greater.

Maybe amateur athletics in college has always been a pretense. Perhaps I’m being naive, but if I want to watch players playing for millions of dollars, I’ll watch the NBA. They certainly have the superior talent.

Posts: 5079 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
PaulCat
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posted 05-05-2022 12:12 AM      Profile for PaulCat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by handycat:
Between NIL and the transfer portal, we may not recognize college athletics in a very short time. Will the next #1 recruit make his decision based on how much NIL money he can get?

Hell yeah he will.

It doesn't have to come from the University to be pay for play - the NIL is most definitely pay for play, and things will get very bad with this. I'm pretty sure the only reason Oscar returned to UK is the NIL. What's to keep him from cashing the first check and then leaving UK? What's to keep any of these kids from cashing the checks and then skipping out on college? Or demanding (as has already been done) more money while threatening to transfer? Things will get very bad.

It'll be a good learning experience for these kids when they realize what taxable income is.

Posts: 10138 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tiptree
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posted 05-05-2022 09:14 AM      Profile for Tiptree   Email Tiptree   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is NOT pay for play. Definitely not. It only allows athletes to sell (license) their Name, Image, or Likeness to a third party.

This quote should lay that idea to rest:

quote:
At the same time, it’s important to understand what NIL does not mean. NCAA rules still prevent schools from paying players directly. This means that college coaches cannot offer money as an incentive for high school athletes to come play at their school, nor can athletes receive compensation directly from their university based upon their athletic achievements. Because the NCAA still intends to maintain its amateur sports status, paying athletes for their play on the field isn’t possible.
https://www.iconsource.com/everything-about-nil.html

If an whiz-kid at science goes to school, can he license an invention and profit from it? If a young hottie becomes a model and is approached by an apparel company to use her likeness in an ad campaign, can she do it? Of course, the answer is yes. The NIL laws just carve out the same right for athletes.

In the past, it would be UK that could profit from a player's NIL. That would be like the university claiming the rights to the whiz-kid's invention, or the money from the apparel deal. We can agree that both of those would be an infringement on the rights of the two students. Why can't athletes have the same deal?

UK can't "offer" a recruit a specific amount of money from NIL... it isn't up to UK. UK can provide an excellent opportunity to earn NIL income, but that would depend upon how well the player performs, how much he is liked by fans, etc. In other words, NIL is almost a by-product of being a top performer. Not sure how that offends everyone.

[ 05-05-2022, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]

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Tiptree

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PaulCat
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posted 05-05-2022 09:29 AM      Profile for PaulCat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Those are apples and oranges. Models and whiz-kids aren't recruited like basketball and football players. NIL may not be part of the legal recruiting process, but it will play a part. A huge part. Boosters don't care wether a hot model attends their university. Well, maybe they do. [Big Grin]
Posts: 10138 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
handycat
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posted 05-05-2022 10:39 AM      Profile for handycat   Email handycat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From my original post.

“In its current form it has too many loopholes for unscrupulous boosters.”

And

“I’m not against college athletes receiving some financial compensation. I am against NIL in its current form. IMO, the NCAA needs to step in immediately and set strict guidelines.”

This from an article I read this morning.

“NCAA Council chairman Shane Lyons told CBS Sports the association's ruling body is motivated to push back against what is becoming a burgeoning scandal of disguised "pay for play" in college athletics.”

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ncaa-aims-to-crack-down-on-boosters-disguising-pay-for-play-as-name-image-and-likeness-payments/

Posts: 5079 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
CatfanRick
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posted 05-05-2022 11:14 AM      Profile for CatfanRick   Email CatfanRick   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just read this

This is 6 days ago and there is more to the story since.

Wong's response.

More to this story

The way I understand NIL is that guidelines have been set forth by the NCAA and at this time different states are creating their own special set of rules and laws in this area. The above is related to the state of Florida and the way NIL's are handled there.

Here is something on Kentucky's position on NIL.

There seems to be no national oversight to this. Schools (see Ohio State in the above link) in some states can be directly involved while other states prohibit this (see Florida in above links).

I will admit now that I did all this quick and easy without a deep dive in to other areas of the NIL. I got lazy and don't want to spend the time.

I will also admit that I have no problem with anyone anywhere at any level earning a paycheck. If someone wants to pay someone to sit at their function and sign autographs or another someone wants pay him/her to do a commercial for their business I am OK with that.

I just think there are a lot of unsolved variables in this that need to be ironed out between all involved parties. I don't know where else to go with this other than to see any comments and rethink it then.

Posts: 7124 | From: Florence, Ky | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged
handycat
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posted 05-05-2022 09:47 PM      Profile for handycat   Email handycat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What coach Stoops has to say on NIL.

quote:
“Was it really intended to say, ‘hey, give me 25 super-wealthy boosters, put a collective together with $25 million in there and let’s buy recruits left and right?’ That’s pay for play.”
https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/mark-stoops-explains-recruiting-totally-changed-nil-era/

[ 05-05-2022, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]

Posts: 5079 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Tiptree
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posted 05-05-2022 11:25 PM      Profile for Tiptree   Email Tiptree   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I stand corrected then. My niave mind forgot about the dirty money coming from boosters. I suppose the past and present would look like this:

Past: Rich booster owns a car dealership. New car shows up in Wildcat Lodge parking lot.

Present: Rich booster owns a car dealership. Recruit films a few commercials, gets paid $250,000.

I don't think the principle of NIL is ever going away, but certainly there has to be some serious oversight or it will be worse than before. Only legal. Or something like that.

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Tiptree

Posts: 12498 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
handycat
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posted 05-06-2022 08:18 AM      Profile for handycat   Email handycat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have no problem with NIL in principle. I also believe these young athletes have a right to earn an income based on their ability and popularity. If administered, correctly, it may even reduce cheating.

I listen to several sports radio talk shows and have heard many horror stories about the way NIL is being administrated. It has made me concerned for the future of major college sports. Whether the stories are true or not, I have no idea.

I don’t believe we can trust the universities, coaches, fans and certainly not the boosters to do the right thing with NIL in its present form.

May God help us, that leaves the NCAA.

[ 05-06-2022, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]

Posts: 5079 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
GA Cat
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posted 05-06-2022 09:55 AM      Profile for GA Cat   Email GA Cat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tiptree:
I stand corrected then. My niave mind forgot about the dirty money coming from boosters. I suppose the past and present would look like this:

Past: Rich booster owns a car dealership. New car shows up in Wildcat Lodge parking lot.

Present: Rich booster owns a car dealership. Recruit films a few commercials, gets paid $250,000.

I don't think the principle of NIL is ever going away, but certainly there has to be some serious oversight or it will be worse than before. Only legal. Or something like that.

Booster one paying player one for x
Booster two paying player two for x

And even may be two boosters paying a single player after they came to the university was not unexpected.

However, 25 boosters going in together to form a dummy corp and so they can pool their money and then tell the coaching staff (in states where the coaches can like Texas and Tennessee) how much money they have to work with so that coaches can promise specific amounts to specific recruits is where this has gone all wrong.

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Born Blue, Always Blue
Kentucky Blue, that is...

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