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Author Topic: Gabriel pros and cons on draft.
handycat
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Member # 2323

posted 05-05-2018 08:00 AM      Profile for handycat   Email handycat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I really hope he stays but I'm beginning to think he will be gone.

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2018/5/4/17319548/kentucky-basketball-pros-cons-wenyen-gabriel-nba-draft-uk

Posts: 5377 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
PaulCat
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posted 05-05-2018 09:41 AM      Profile for PaulCat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If Wenyen leaves, it's just another bad mark on the Calipari style of recruiting. It just further proves that Cal recruits kids who have ZERO interest in a college education, and no one should be recruiting kids like that. Yes, i'm aware that i'm being naive, but college sports should not be used like this. I think based on what i've heard lately, this one-and-done crap will end within a few years, but even with that there has to be something more done to make sure that kids who are in college actually want to be there.
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Tiptree
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posted 05-05-2018 11:01 AM      Profile for Tiptree   Email Tiptree   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am not sure that Cal is necessarily recruiting kids who don't want to be in college. As a group, they go to class and get good grades. If they were on the track team or the soccer team, they would all probably be here for four years and do well in college.

BUT, they are basketball players. Not just any basketball players, they are considered to be among the best in the land, and play at a program that is highly visible. The money that they can earn for their skills completely distorts the decision process. They don't need a college degree for their profession, and they can earn much, much more than the track star or soccer player will ever earn, even with a degree.

This is just a fact, beyond our control. It would be foolish to be some sort of educational purist and give up millions of dollars to obtain a degree that gains them nothing (for now). Cal has done a pretty good job of getting those kids back on campus for classes in the off-season, so when the NBA riches disappear, they can resume their degree program if they still wish.

Asking them to stay because they "should" is like trying to convince Bill Gates or Zuckerberg that they should have remained in college. Some people simply don't need a college education to be fabulously successful.

And this comes from the guy who works in higher ed. Go figure. [Smile]

[ 05-05-2018, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]

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Tiptree

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson

Posts: 13592 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
PaulCat
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posted 05-05-2018 11:40 AM      Profile for PaulCat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tiptree:
Not just any basketball players, they are considered to be among the best in the land...

Is it because they play for Cal and Kentucky that they are considered to be the best? Gabriel probably has a 1% chance of getting drafted this year, yet he's considering staying in the draft????? Not invited to the combine and not found on any mock drafts. If he leaves, then he has no interest in education. He, like many other Calipari recruits, should've just turned pro and gone overseas to being with, because that's where they usually end up. Why throw away one or two years playing college ball?

I'm not saying that any of these kids need an education. My point is that they don't need to be in college if education is not one of their goals.

[ 05-05-2018, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: PaulCat ]

Posts: 10322 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tiptree
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posted 05-05-2018 11:46 AM      Profile for Tiptree   Email Tiptree   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I take it as a win-win. They get started on their college career, learn from a great coaching staff and compete against other great players for a year or two, then they go and earn a salary that would make most people jealous.

I think where we differ is the "wasted time" part. My opinion is that any education is valuable, whether it ends up leading to an actual degree or not. They will be better people just by being exposed to our University. Plus, for those whose NBA career doesn't pan out (or who play overseas), they have the confidence now that they CAN succeed in the classroom, encouraging them to return and complete a degree later.

As to the University, they get the benefit of their talents for a year, helping UK Athletics succeed, entertaining millions of fans, and maybe even set themselves up for future donations.

Really, it is a win for all involved. As much as I miss the old way of seeing these kids develop for four years (and I really miss that!), I can see that this is still a good thing. Just different.

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Tiptree

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson

Posts: 13592 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Tiptree
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posted 05-05-2018 11:54 AM      Profile for Tiptree   Email Tiptree   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
BTW, as to Gabriel's "1% chance of succeeding" in the NBA, I hope we don't forget that these are young folk still finding their way in life.

If you looked at me as a sophomore, you would see a guy from a poor family, attending a community college and working the midnight shift at a convenience store. I had already quit college once -- Centre College just wasn't my place. I had OK grades, but no direction, and certainly would not have given anybody any indication that I might be successful one day.

People change. Some finally 'get it', and change their life dramatically. Wenyen has the skills to be an excellent NBA forward, but his problem has always been his consistency and focus. If he "gets it", and really focuses laser-like on his game like the other truly greats do, who knows where he can go?

At this point, at least he has a couple of years of college under his belt, some great experiences both on and off the court, and the chance to take his destiny into his own hands. I wish him luck!

[ 05-05-2018, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]

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Tiptree

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson

Posts: 13592 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
PaulCat
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posted 05-05-2018 12:06 PM      Profile for PaulCat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tiptree:
They get started on their college career...

Tip, what do you mean by college career? We have kids going to college so that they can have a career in the NBA. So why isn't basketball a college course/curriculum (not sure I've got the right terminology here). Why can't kids major in basketball if that is their career goal? I guess this is why I still see college sports as extracurricular activities.
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Old Norm
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posted 05-05-2018 12:30 PM      Profile for Old Norm   Email Old Norm   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is no Utopia.

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Pray For Our Country!

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Tiptree
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posted 05-05-2018 01:30 PM      Profile for Tiptree   Email Tiptree   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I guess we are ascribing different motives to these kids, PaulCat.

I know Cal strives to recruit kids from good families, with a strong work ethic and good study habits. If that is correct (my working assumption), then these are not the thuggish kids that go to college with no intention of ever breaking a sweat in the classroom. These are great kids, who understand the value of an education, but also understand their value in the marketplace. So, yes, I see them as 'beginning their college career', but that career will be put on hold as another, far more lucrative one takes precedence. Then, when that is done, they have the nucleus and the confidence to return to finish that degree.

Not all will, of course. Bill Gates nor Zuckerberg have not done so, nor will they. But their 'far more lucrative careers' lasted a lot longer than the typical NBA career, and earned them far more money. Some of these kids will eventually come back and finish a degree, simply because they want to. Others may come back to build the foundation for the 'after basketball' career. Others will not return at all.

But, if you look at the numbers, that is true of the general student population as well. Not every freshman finishes college. Far from it! Only 61% of UK students graduate within 6 years. Only 38.5% graduate in the 'normal' 4 years. There are roughly 23,000 undergraduate students at UK right now, of which roughly 6,000 are freshmen. Of those 6,000, about 2,300 will graduate in 4 years. Another 1,350 or so will straggle along and graduate in the following two years (I was on the 'six year plan' myself!). That means 2,350 of those 6,000 freshmen will not complete their degree, for a whole variety of reasons. I think Wenyen has a really, really good reason not to finish his degree. [Smile]

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Tiptree

“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson

Posts: 13592 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged


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