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Topic: Here's a couple of ideas.
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PaulCat
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Member # 513
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posted 04-25-2018 08:39 AM
There are 150 collegiate players that have declared for the NBA draft (not all have signed with an agent). I think the "test the waters" thing just pollutes the process. I have two different ideas that could improve the draft process and save the NBA teams millions.
1. The NBA should have a process of selecting players to be invited to the draft - if you're not invited, you're not getting drafted. Kids wouldn't just declare for the draft - they would have to be invited. This would possibly keep kids in school and not in the draft when they have no business being there. And if you're invited and not drafted, you're a free agent available to sign with any team's D-league affiliate.
2. An alternate idea is to not have an NBA draft, but have a D-league draft. Then the D-league teams play all summer and those players who are worthy can be called up to the NBA teams and given a contract. This would keep the NBA from wasting millions of dollars on kids who will not make it in the NBA.
I really like the second idea. Why should players be given guaranteed millions just for being taken in the first round? NBA teams could use the savings to lower ticket prices or use for salaries of their current star players.
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Old Norm
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posted 04-25-2018 09:16 AM
Well, here's my idea. College basketball is considered amateur (non-paid) sports. Why should the kids be banned from coming back to school and playing just because they tried out for a job and didn't get it? They are still amateurs, as they have not been paid one red cent. As far as saving the NBA money: That doesn't mean squat to me. They (NCAA and NBA) just make it too damn complicated and it shouldn't be.
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Pray For Our Country!
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handycat
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posted 04-25-2018 09:19 AM
Here's my idea. Just do away with the NBA. Period.
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PaulCat
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posted 04-25-2018 09:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by handycat:
Here's my idea. Just do away with the NBA. Period.
I could live with that.
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Trey Ball
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posted 04-25-2018 11:01 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Old Norm:
Well, here's my idea. College basketball is considered amateur (non-paid) sports. Why should the kids be banned from coming back to school and playing just because they tried out for a job and didn't get it? They are still amateurs, as they have not been paid one red cent. As far as saving the NBA money: That doesn't mean squat to me. They (NCAA and NBA) just make it too damn complicated and it shouldn't be.
Agree 100%
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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.
redbone
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Trey Ball
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posted 04-25-2018 11:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by handycat:
Here's my idea. Just do away with the NBA. Period.
Disagree 100% ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I love the NBA. I really can't stand College Basketball any longer.
I only watch UK and that is it and I even missed quite a few UK games this year as well. I think if you pieced together all other college teams I watched this year it may have totaled a half of basketball.
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Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.
redbone
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SCWC
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posted 04-25-2018 11:14 AM
I love basketball but not the NBA version of it. I have tried watching some of their current playoffs, watched about 2 to 3 minutes of the Pelicans the other night and as much as I like Rondo, Davis and Miller, could not stay with it. I prefer amateur athletics myself, never have been much of a pro sports fan.
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catmandoo
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posted 04-25-2018 01:40 PM
I still marvel how well Rondo handles the ball and hardly ever misses a open man.
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boomdaddy
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posted 04-26-2018 10:54 AM
The NBA is not the problem, the NCAA is the problem. The largest conferences should form their own league and break away from the NCAA.
My big problem with paying players is if politics and gender laws come into play. If free markets ruled, the star players could do endorsements and get paid for the schools making a profit from their services.
I suspect if the colleges are allowed to pay the players of the money generating sports, then the women will raise hell and say where is our money, even though they are a drain on the resources already.
Kentucky makes money on two programs and has to support the rest. Some schools in smaller leagues barely break even.
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PaulCat
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posted 04-26-2018 12:58 PM
True, Boom. If you pay one scholarship person, you'll have to pay them all, even academic scholarship students. If not, think of the lawsuits.
The thing is, lack of compensation to athletes is not part of the problem with college sports. The problem is schools and other entities who are paying kids to go to certain schools. If there are kids who want to demand compensation, just revoke their scholarship and send them packing and then see what tune they sing.
An issue, not necessarily a problem, is that college sports are filled with kids who don't want to be in college. This is where the NBA needs to build its G-League and allow kids to go there instead of college. College sports should not be the minor leagues for professional sports. Get rid of the NBA draft and have a G-League draft.
[ 04-26-2018, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: PaulCat ]
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boomdaddy
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posted 04-26-2018 01:48 PM
I have a different view of college....
The whole higher learning mantra is BS. A college degree is a joke. It puts most kids in debt and the prices have skyrocketed way beyond the pace of inflation.
A kid that goes to a university and stays on year or two years,leaves for the pros, and makes a boat load of money, doesn't need to have a degree. The school has a competitive ball team because he chose to attend and they sell tickets and have tv time from having a competitive team.
I do not think the schools or the coaches should get punished if an agent had his hooks in a kid and nobody knew about it. If the agent has ties to the coaching staff, that is a different story.
I do not think the NBA should cow down to the whims of the NCAA. It is not NBA's fault that the NCAA is stingy and keeps 99% of the money.
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 04-26-2018 02:33 PM
Paul said"just revoke their scholarship and send them packing and then see what tune they sing."
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Coach's are a major part of the prb. They will go to any length to keep their players: WHY
where else can you get HUGE money to coach a bunch of kids. Same for football!
Coaches want (have) to win to secure those big contracts and anything goes!!
[ 04-26-2018, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
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ukcatfannfl
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Tiptree
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posted 04-26-2018 05:17 PM
Boom,
I work in higher education. I think you need to rethink this:
quote:
The whole higher learning mantra is BS. A college degree is a joke. It puts most kids in debt and the prices have skyrocketed way beyond the pace of inflation.
Yes, the cost of a college education can be incredibly expensive (it need not be, but if you want the 'name brand' schools, you WILL pay). I know this pain very well... I have two daughters in college in California right now, and the cost is breathtaking.
BUT, the idea that a college degree is a joke, is well, a joke on you. In the most recent economic recovery, over 11 million jobs have been created. of those 11 million, only 80,000 would be accessible to someone without at least an associate's degree. That is about 1.5% of the new jobs. Unemployment rates are horrendous for those without a degree, and even in the depths of the recession, those with advanced degrees hardly experienced ANY unemployment.
Even Donald Trump cannot turn back the clock to the days when a high school education would ensure you access to a decent job. As much as we would like to think otherwise, jobs today overwhelmingly require some college education.
[ 04-26-2018, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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Old Norm
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posted 04-26-2018 05:32 PM
I'd be a lot happier with colleges if 90+% of the professors were not teaching socialism.
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 04-26-2018 05:34 PM
I don't Tip - a report on fox the other night talks about how higher education is getting "worse" not better - The GPA might have come up a little but the overall "smarts" of college students is way down. More money less education BUT one needs that degree for general jobs - teachers etc but hell lots and lots of them cant even tell you where Europe is and who George Washington was.
IMV other than engineers etc the overall population is getting "dumbed" down. But it is a good racket for College's as they keep increasing he amount of Tenure professor;s and the cost of attending their liberal schools!
p.s. Tip trade schools and 1st responders and jobs like those are up .... Don;t need a college education (cops to move up you do) but a liberal arts graduate - dumb as a stump-!!
[ 04-26-2018, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
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ukcatfannfl
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boomdaddy
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posted 04-26-2018 06:20 PM
I have a degree from UK. Yes, my kids have degrees and are in college.
I think college is a pure rip off in today's times
It is inexcusable how much universities are charging. If a young man in today's world wanted to skip college an do a trade, I would be all for it.
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handycat
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posted 04-26-2018 06:52 PM
There is more to a college degree than the money you make after graduation.
Damn, that's deep. Just think of the stuff I could come up with if only I could have passed the third grade.
[ 04-26-2018, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
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boomdaddy
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posted 04-27-2018 10:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by handycat:
There is more to a college degree than the money you make after graduation.
Damn, that's deep. Just think of the stuff I could come up with if only I could have passed the third grade.
That is one opinion. It depends on whose glasses you are looking through, if that opinion holds any weight.
If colleges and universities weren't about the money, education would be free.
Law classes don't teach you how to be a lawyer, they help you pass the bar.
If you look at a lot of business professors, how many of them are ultra successful in business? Those who can do, those who can't teach.
Drive and determination is not something that you can't get from taking a class.
[ 04-27-2018, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: boomdaddy ]
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Tiptree
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posted 04-27-2018 11:15 AM
Well, boom, you have managed to offend me, my wife, and most of the people I know. Thank you.
Let me say a couple of things: College IS too expensive. The problem is the labor costs and facilities costs will never go down, only up. If you want the advantages that accrue from having the amazing institutions of learning we have in this country, then there is a cost. The idea that college should be free is straight of of Bernie Sanders' platform, btw. Never knew you were a socialist.
The entire world envies our universities. And, the entire world strives to get their children into our universities. Make no mistake -- without them, we would be waaaaay down the list of 'great countries'.
So, we agree on the cost. Trust me, if I told you what I am paying to send my two daughters to college, your jaw would drop. But that is a decision my wife insisted upon, even though there are many less expensive alternatives.
I also agree with Norm that the overwhelming majority of professors in this country are overtly leftist, and that bleeds into the classroom every single day. It actually starts much earlier, as most K-12 teachers are also progressive in their thinking. Trying to have your kids remain conservative in college is almost as hard as trying to have them remain Christian... those worldviews are met with derision and hostility.
But you are side-stepping my point (something you often do here). Almost all of the new jobs being created in this country for the past decade require a college degree. 99.5% of them, to be precise. Forget the America you and I grew up in. That is gone. Finished. We live in an economy where a college degree is a necessary credential for employment. PERIOD. Note I said "employment", not "entrepreneurship". That is one skill that cannot be taught (IMO), and the Bill Gates and Steve Jobs of this world are essential to our economic health. But being on the payroll increasingly requires you to show your sheepskin.
Have colleges 'dumbed down'? I cannot speak for all 3,000 of them in this country, but I am sure it has happened to some extent. When you go from 5% of the population attending college to over 50%, the curriculum must adjust somewhat. But not as much as you think. Critical thinking skills are still taught, writing clearly is still required, and essential knowledge is still transferred. Grade inflation means that the degree of mastery required for a "B" might have only earned you a "C" in years past -- and I KNOW that has happened. But, to use trite phrases to denigrate all the dedicated, amazing professors out there is ridiculous.
In fact, your broad-brush assessments of all groups of people are both ill-informed and offensive. I really think you need to get out more.
[ 04-27-2018, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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PaulCat
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posted 04-27-2018 02:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by boomdaddy:
The whole higher learning mantra is BS. A college degree is a joke.
Boom, would you let someone operate on you without a medical degree? Would you like someone to represent you in court without a law degree? If you owned a company, would you hire a computer programmer who doesn't have a computer degree, or an accountant without an accounting degree?
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ukman
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posted 04-27-2018 03:53 PM
Those who can do, those who can't teach.
I am very offended as a teacher. I get so sick and tired of that BS saying. I teach because I feel called to teach, and because I feel I am making a difference in the lives of kids. A long time ago, back when the world was more right, teachers were looked at as a very respected profession. Are there some that get into it for the wrong reasons; yes, just like any profession. But we should want our very best people to be teachers because they are the ones we are entrusting our kids to for 7-8 hours a day. We should treat teachers with more respect, and be more appreciative of them rather than think they are just poor people who can't do anything else.
Again, BS. Teachers can be a huge influence in our kids lives, good or bad. If I didn't want to teach I am very confident i could have gone into sales, or some other business and been successful. I did financial planning for a while, and did very well, but I felt called to teach, so I stuck with it. Maybe you are just referring to college professors, but that statement is a very broad statement and very offensive to those teachers that take their job seriously, and take the students lives that they are entrusted with very seriously. To any teachers out there, God bless your efforts and continue to do your best for the kids you teach, despite the many ungrateful people who are out there. And Tip, there are too many leftists in education in my opinion, and we need to encourage more conservative people to get into teaching, that can model conservative values. I have loved teaching and coaching, and I wouldn't change my choice. I feel I have made an impact on this world much more than I ever could have in some other profession. Yeah, I probably would have made more money, but to me that's not what everything is about.
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handycat
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posted 04-27-2018 04:19 PM
ukman, you're spot on.
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blue hoot
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posted 04-29-2018 11:18 AM
I know a 90 year old that paid $800 for 4 years of Civil Engineering school at a major university in 1948. In today’s dollars, that’s about $9,000. 1 year of college should be around 2-3k per year. Most families don’t have the money to pay 15-25k or more per year for their children to go to college. In the end, their kids choose to work at jobs that pay more than minimum wage “like $10-12 per hour” and probably top out at $15-18 per hour. You cannot make much of a living making 30-40k. If you do go to college and pay all that money, you better go into engineering, healthcare or finance because most other majors do not justify most college cost.
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 04-29-2018 03:52 PM
Tip says: "illion jobs have been created. of those 11 million, only 80,000 would be accessible to someone without at least an associate's degree. That is about 1.5% of the new jobs. Unemployment rates are horrendous for those without a degree, and even in the depths of the recession, those with advanced degrees "
Tip where do u get those figures - tons of factory jobs and tradesman jobs are becoming available and I am not aware of a degree to get any of them
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ukcatfannfl
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boomdaddy
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posted 04-29-2018 06:46 PM
I don't know why a person having a different opinion about higher education would be offensive to anyone?
It is really how I see it.
If my view is wrong, explain to me why the cost of a degree triples compared to the rate of inflation, why tenure is such a positive for the consumer (ie the student), and why foreigners are given grants to study in America when those scholarships should be given to US citizens?
I would think that educators would have an open mind, when it comes to differing opinions and points of view that are not their own? Maybe it is the opposite? The more education you have or think that you have, the less value you place with opinions that do not coincide with your own. Who knows, maybe my sample size is not large enough to make an intelligent hypothesis.
By the way, yes I did say something offensive with the saying "those that can do and those that can't teach". Oddly enough, that was a quote from a UK marketing professor who decided it was safer to be a professor than to try and make a go of it in the business world. Those were his words, although I know he wasn't the first one to coin the phrase.
Take away tenure and keep them based on merit, and I will have a much greater respect for the profession. Teachers and professors should not be treated like supreme court judges. Just one man's opinion.
[ 04-29-2018, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: boomdaddy ]
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GA Cat
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posted 04-29-2018 07:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by boomdaddy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by handycat:
[qb]Those who can do, those who can't teach. .
They are offended, not because you have a different opinion, but because the above statement is a direct insult and generalization of all teachers and professors.
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Born Blue, Always Blue
Kentucky Blue, that is...
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Tiptree
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posted 04-29-2018 11:42 PM
In 2013, the Center on Education and the Workforce predicted this:
quote:
Of the 55 million job openings between 2010 and 2020:
65% of job openings will require at least some postsecondary education (35% will require at least a B.A.), up from 59% in 2010 and 28% in 1973.
The financial services industry will have nearly 20% (10 million) of those openings, more than half of which will be new jobs.
The wholesale and retail trade will have 7 million of the openings.
Government and public education services will have 6.7 million openings.
Healthcare services will add another 6.6 million openings.
Leisure and hospitality will add more than 5 million openings.
Manufacturing will add around 3.5 million openings, professional and business services around 4 million openings, and personal services a little more than 3 million openings.
Construction will add about 2.8 million openings and private education and information services will add less than 2.5 million openings.
A majority of these 55 million job openings will require at least some college education (with the exception of construction).
All industries will experience an increase in the percentage of jobs requiring postsecondary education.
In the financial services industry, 79% of jobs will require college education (up from 77% in 2010).
In the private education services industry, 80% of jobs will require college education (up from 79% in 2010). In the government and public education industry, 81% of jobs will require college education (up from 79% in 2010).
In the healthcare services industry, 80% of jobs will require college education (up from 79% in 2010).
In the information services industry, 79% of jobs will require college education (up from 78% in 2010).
Over 90% of job openings in healthcare professions and STEM fields will continue to require postsecondary education.
Roughly 1/3 of the jobs created will accept someone with a high-school diploma or less, and that number is dropping every year. Many of those jobs are seasonal (construction, agriculture, tourism), or low skill (house cleaners/janitors, drivers, personal care aids, etc.).
See this Bureau of Labor Standards report for 2017 unemployment rates grouped by gender and educational level:
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cbc.asp
here is another BLS report that shows unemployment rates and average income by educational attainment:
https://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm
Those are snapshots in a pretty robust economy; they get much, much worse for the lower end in an economic downturn.
So, yes, you can still find employment without attending college, but you will be on the low-end of the pay scale for life, and subject to much higher unemployment rates.
You can think what you want about the value of a college education. I told you that I agree that some colleges and universities are pricing themselves out of the marketplace. That is driven entirely by the rising costs of labor and facilities (and can only be ameliorated by having a HUGE endowment). Believe me, the college I worked for for 15 years struggled mightily to keep tuition from growing, but costs spiraled higher every year. There is a wave of closings of colleges going on right now, and it will continue. Lower cost means of delivering education are being experimented with, and will mature over time. Those marvelous institutions that we hardly notice dotting this country may eventually close their doors, to our great loss. But that will only happen when they are replaced by effective, lower-cost alternatives. The cost of a college degree is remarkably inelastic, but that is going to change.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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Tiptree
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posted 04-29-2018 11:44 PM
Ed, I tried and tried to find the document that I got my figures from. I failed. ![[Frown]](frown.gif) But, I gave you some numbers from the BLS and from a think-tank's predictions from 2013 in the post above. Not as dire as the numbers I quoted, but certainly reflective of the growing need for a college degree.
If I find that document, I will post the source here.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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Tiptree
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posted 04-29-2018 11:57 PM
Boom,
Some thoughts on tenure:
(1) Tenure is certainly an old concept, based upon the foundational idea of "academic freedom". That is, once you have proven yourself and been granted tenure, you need not fear losing your job over something you say that might be controversial. But professors accept lower-than-market pay for their skills in exchange for this amazing job security.
(2) Professors have ranks, and are divided into "tenure track" and "non-tenure track". Non-tenure track positions (adjunct and visiting professors, research fellows, etc) are growing, while tenure-track positions are gradually decreasing.
(3) Tenure-track positions generally have three ranks: Assistant professor, Associate professor, and (full) professor. Assistant professors have no tenure, and competition is fierce to reach Associate rank (which is usually granted with tenure). Many, many professors flame out and never reach Associate rank. Trust me, this is an incredibly difficult, merit-based competition.
(4) Once you attain tenure, the pressure is off somewhat, but you must work very hard to get full professor rank. As it should be, the work required to reach full professor is even more difficult than that required to attain Associate professor.
Personally, I think professors who attain Associate rank should be given the choice of being granted tenure (with correspondingly lower pay), or foregoing tenure for a higher salary. I would also be willing to eliminate tenure altogether. But, in the vast majority of cases, tenured professors are not a problem -- they are all-stars who have earned that privilege. My beef with tenure is that it is the very vector that has greatly assisted in moving colleges far to the left politically, since a tenured professor can say anything in class with no fear of losing his/her job.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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ukman
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posted 04-30-2018 07:49 AM
I am offended because you are saying that teachers only teach because they can't do anything else. That is wrong. It can be your opinion, but I can certainly be offended by such a generalized, and hurtful statement. It is ignorant to say such a thing. If that was said by a marketing professor, then he is a disgrace to teaching and should get out. Education is over priced, and tenure should go away, and yes there are problems in education. But you should be careful to discredit an entire profession with your opinion.
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 04-30-2018 02:27 PM
tks tip - just that tradesmen are making a come back and other non degree needs i.e. pipeline workers, gulf coast oil, factory workers, car makers, border guards, firemen, police, ems,all of which dont require a 4 yr degree just a specially degree i.e LEO cert (which converts to college credits) etc...
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ukcatfannfl
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Old Norm
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posted 04-30-2018 04:18 PM
Maintenance men in some factories (i.e. Toyota) make pretty good money, however the do have to pass a pretty rigorous exam to get hired. Their test to get hired in maintenance has a 2% pass rate. I'm proud to say two of my sons, the oldest and the youngest, passed that test.
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Pray For Our Country!
Posts: 36269 | From: Western KY | Registered: Aug 2001
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Tiptree
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Member # 844
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posted 04-30-2018 04:40 PM
Oh, I am not counting only 4-year degrees. 2-year degrees and post-secondary certifications also count in the numbers I quote.
As of now, fully 40% of college students in the United States are in 2-year programs. Some of those will transfer to 4-year programs, but most will not.
In fact, most of them will not graduate at all. The graduation rate for 2-year schools hovers around 15%. That is because many students are also single parents, or working full time, or not really interested in taking more than a class or two. Raising the graduation rate will require 2-year institutions to design more flexible (and shorter) programs with easier on-ramps and off-ramps. It is a priority now in my industry to make that happen.
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Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
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ukcatfannfl
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posted 04-30-2018 08:16 PM
tks again tip ur last makes total sense to me,
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ukcatfannfl
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PaulCat
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posted 05-02-2018 11:30 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Old Norm:
Maintenance men in some factories (i.e. Toyota) make pretty good money, however the do have to pass a pretty rigorous exam to get hired. Their test to get hired in maintenance has a 2% pass rate. I'm proud to say two of my sons, the oldest and the youngest, passed that test.
The Toyota shop up here in Northern Ky starts people out at about $20/hour just to work inventory. You can't beat that. Plus they get ridiculous lease offers and Toyota pays for the car insurance!
Posts: 10340 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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Old Norm
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posted 05-02-2018 04:24 PM
Both my sons working there have bought new Toyotas in the past few months. They got ridiculous discounts equal to or less than dealer costs. They also make considerably more than $20 per hour in maintenance.
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Pray For Our Country!
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