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Author Topic: Really?
Old Norm
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posted 02-14-2017 08:22 AM      Profile for Old Norm   Email Old Norm   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Kentucky is a 14 point favorite over UT this evening.

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SCWC
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posted 02-14-2017 09:39 AM      Profile for SCWC     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They should cover if the team shows up that were playing for us prior to the game at UT a few weeks ago. You never know with this team though. I will just be happy with a win myself.
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boomdaddy
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posted 02-14-2017 11:49 AM      Profile for boomdaddy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is time for the team to turn the corner and start an upswing in play.
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WildcatFanatic
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posted 02-14-2017 12:28 PM      Profile for WildcatFanatic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's all about peaking at the right time!
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Bama Cat
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posted 02-14-2017 12:44 PM      Profile for Bama Cat   Email Bama Cat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You're right about that. They sure haven't peaked yet, unless it was the UNC game. They may have hit their low point already against TN earlier. [Confused]
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WildcatFanatic
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posted 02-14-2017 01:14 PM      Profile for WildcatFanatic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If it was the NC game hopefully we'll peak again. We're sure not there yet. Tonight's game will tell a lot. Time is getting short.
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SCWC
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posted 02-14-2017 02:15 PM      Profile for SCWC     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Only 6 regular season games left, time for the Reboot to start kicking in.
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PaulCat
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posted 02-14-2017 03:22 PM      Profile for PaulCat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think Monk was who peaked against Carolina, not the team as a whole. Our defense was terrible in that game.
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SCWC
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posted 02-14-2017 05:56 PM      Profile for SCWC     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It was at Tennessee that Coach Cal made the following statement which in my opinion started our team in a downward spiral:

From ESPN:
Heading into its first meeting against Tennessee, the mandate was clear from Kentucky coach John Calipari. He wanted center Bam Adebayo to be more demanding of the ball. During halftime of that 82-80 loss, Calipari declared that anyone who didn't feed Adebayo in the post was coming out of the game.
quote:



[ 02-14-2017, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: SCWC ]

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WildcatFanatic
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posted 02-14-2017 10:04 PM      Profile for WildcatFanatic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Do you think he's still saying that or has that changed? Defense looked a lot better tonight. Happy to see the revenge win against TN.
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boomdaddy
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posted 02-15-2017 07:38 AM      Profile for boomdaddy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The ball movement on offense was the best I have seen in a long time. They got some nice open shots, because of it.

Fox had the ankle and was sick for a spell. He has not become the dominant PG that I thought he would. Fox made two defensive plays, back to back that are the kinds of plays he needs to make every game. The opposing guards should be nervous, when they come down the floor. I hope those plays become a regular occurrence for Mr. Fox.

Monk rebounded. Monk rebounded. Monk rebounded. That was a very big deal. He had a two game stretch with 0 rebounds.

Willis was on fire. Very good to see him filling it up. That is the stroke that he at the end of last season.

If Fox can be a ball hawk and Monk can rebound, the team should be able to compete against anybody.

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catmandoo
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posted 02-15-2017 10:56 AM      Profile for catmandoo   Email catmandoo   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The 47 points we scored in the first half was impressive..

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boomdaddy
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posted 02-15-2017 03:44 PM      Profile for boomdaddy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When was the last time Kentucky broke 100?
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catmandoo
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posted 02-15-2017 03:59 PM      Profile for catmandoo   Email catmandoo   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Malik Monks 47 points against North Carolina earlier this season tied him with Dan Issel for 6th place in points scored by a Kentucky player.

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catmandoo
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posted 02-15-2017 04:13 PM      Profile for catmandoo   Email catmandoo   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here is a list of the 10 top ten scoring games by a Kentucky player:

1. Jodie Meeks, 54 — 90-72 win at Tennessee on Jan. 13, 2009.

2. Dan Issel, 53 — 120-85 win at Mississippi on Feb. 7, 1970.

3. Cliff Hagan, 51 — 86-59 win over Temple on Dec. 5, 1953.

3. Dan Issel, 51 — 121-105 win at LSU on Feb. 21, 1970.

5. Bob Burrow, 50 — 107-65 win over LSU on Jan. 14, 1956.

6. Malik Monk, 47 — 103-100 win over North Carolina on Dec. 17, 2016.

6. Dan Issel, 47 — 98-89 win at Alabama on Feb. 23, 1970.

8. Jodie Meeks, 46 — 93-69 win over Appalachian State on Dec. 20, 2008.

9. Jodie Meeks, 45 — 79-63 win at Arkansas on Feb. 14, 2009.

10. Dan Issel, 44 — 109-99 win over Notre Dame on March 12, 1970.


Link

[ 02-15-2017, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: catmandoo ]

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Old Norm
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posted 02-15-2017 05:17 PM      Profile for Old Norm   Email Old Norm   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bear in mind, Issel, Hagen and Burrow all did this before the three point line! That is truly remarkable!

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ALA_KAT2
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posted 02-15-2017 05:55 PM      Profile for ALA_KAT2   Email ALA_KAT2   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Big Dan, "the Horse!". Man, wouldn't it be great to have one like him again.

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Bama Cat
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posted 02-16-2017 10:53 PM      Profile for Bama Cat   Email Bama Cat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dont look for it anytime soon under Cal, if you know what I mean. He either can't recruit them or they don't want to play for him. There have been several good kids who have went elsewhere that could have helped us.
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PaulCat
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posted 02-17-2017 08:27 AM      Profile for PaulCat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I watch a lot of ball and see so many forwards and centers that were not 5-star recruits, and they have much more talent than most of the recruits Cal has brought in. Is Cal putting too much stock in the recruiting rankings? He has no trouble landing excellent guards, but he's 50-50 on forwards and centers. Or it could be that he just pushes them out the door after one year and they never develop into stud college players?
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boomdaddy
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posted 02-17-2017 09:58 AM      Profile for boomdaddy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am no expert, but here is my opinion on the subject. Cal tries to recruit the best possible players, that he thinks he can work with. He doesn't go after every top ranked recruit. It isn't because they are void of talent, but he doesn't go after them if he doesn't think they are good fit. I have heard him say this interviews.

So, Cal brings in the the most talented players that he can find, that he thinks h e can work with, every year. The 2 main problems with bringing in the top talent is that 1) they want to turn pro after one season and 2) the really good players don't want to come to Kentucky, because they have to sit behind great players. That wouldn't be an issue for most programs, but it is for Kentucky, because really good players have another great player come in every year, that will start ahead of them.

We, as fans, can speculate all day about what players Cal should recruit or what percentage of 3 or 4 year players that he should fill up the roster with. Kentucky will not see the the talented big white boys that Wisconsin gets that stay 3 to 4 years. I wouldn't mind seeing a few on the team, if they are good enough, but they don't want to get scrap minutes, waiting to break into the rotation, every season. So, only good players are willing to come to Kentucky and sit behind great players. You won't see the level in between them take a chance on not getting playing time. That is just my take on things. I could be way off base.

The bottom line is that Calipari is the most successful coach at Kentucky since Rupp.

One can also argue about a certain coach in the state that rebuilt a storied program when it was at its lowest point. I can't speak for the rest of the fan base, But I am very grateful that Kentucky hasn't had the black mail abortion scandal or stripper gate as part of its coaching legacy. My alma mater doesn't have to hire saints as coaches, but I prefer them to keep their social life and scandals out of the press.

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Bama Cat
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posted 02-17-2017 12:50 PM      Profile for Bama Cat   Email Bama Cat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You are right on BD. A perfect example is Kennard who can really shoot the ball and he was a UK player all his life until the time to pick a school arrived. Would he have been as great a college ball player as he is now if he had chosen UK? It's hard to say but my opinion is no. He may have seen the writing on the wall and went where he is a possible two and done now. I thought Zimmerman was another one we could have used but he may have ended up like Wiltjer. I know we all would like to see a run of 2 or 3 championships wth good kids in all 4 classes. But like many here I just don't think we'll see it until Cals run is over, if I live that long.
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handycat
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posted 02-17-2017 01:57 PM      Profile for handycat   Email handycat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bama, I'm curious. Would you like to see Cal's run be over at UK? I promise there will be no criticism from this corner. I am and will always be a Cal supporter but I understand the frustration from some fans.
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SCWC
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posted 02-17-2017 03:07 PM      Profile for SCWC     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here is what KSR says about Sacha K Jones:
quote:

It’s safe to say Sacha Killeya-Jones has been an enormous disappointment in his freshman season, especially considering the preseason hype and the fact he has played a total of three minutes in two appearances in Kentucky’s last 11 games. One person close to the program who knows a lot more than you or me recently told me the reason behind Killeya-Jones’ disappearance from the rotation is simple: he’s just not very good right now. I’m guilty of buying in to the Killeya-Jones preseason hype, and spreading it, after I sat through a two-hour practice back in October and thought he looked good. I didn’t expect he’d be a star this season, but I thought for sure he would get decent minutes and provide a nice complement to Bam Adebayo inside. Boy, was I wrong. Today, John Huang asked Calipari to explain the mystery behind Killeya-Jones’ vanishment, to which Cal said, “He’s still working. He’s trying. Guys are ahead of him right now and that’s a hard deal… He’s a little bit behind, but I’ve had some individual meetings with him, talked to him, and he said, ‘I understood coming here that this was going to be hard, so I’ve gotta work through it.'” So there ya go. He’s a victim to the depth chart.
quote:


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PaulCat
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posted 02-17-2017 05:23 PM      Profile for PaulCat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by boomdaddy:
The bottom line is that Calipari is the most successful coach at Kentucky since Rupp.

This all depends on your definition of success. According to my definition, Joe B, Rick, Tubby and Cal are all equally successful. They all have one National Championship.
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PaulCat
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posted 02-17-2017 05:25 PM      Profile for PaulCat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SCWC:
quote:

So there ya go. He’s a victim to the depth chart.


He could at least get some court time when we're up 25 with three minutes to go in the game.

[ 02-17-2017, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: PaulCat ]

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SCWC
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posted 02-17-2017 06:44 PM      Profile for SCWC     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Paulcat, I agree. I thought he showed great promise in the early games he got into, all but his free throw shooting which was much like if not a little worse than the rest of the team. He is the youngest player on the team age wise.

[ 02-17-2017, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: SCWC ]

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Bama Cat
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posted 02-17-2017 09:39 PM      Profile for Bama Cat   Email Bama Cat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have thought all along that Jones is not as finished as most of the other big men. He just doesn't do much when he is on the floor. He'll either try to improve before next season or possibly leave. He will most likely be behind more freshmen next year. Ask Willis and Wiltjer about that.

I have followed UK for so long I got into the pattern of having kids from at least 3 classes aound each year and now it's been too long without that type of team. I'm not tired of Cal as coach but if there was someone who could recruit as good as him I could be convinced to change my allegiance. Our last championship was 5 years ago so I am restless.

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PaulCat
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posted 02-18-2017 07:49 AM      Profile for PaulCat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Bama Cat:
He just doesn't do much when he is on the floor.

He has played 11 minutes in the last 13 games. He's never really on the floor.
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Old Norm
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posted 02-18-2017 11:15 AM      Profile for Old Norm   Email Old Norm   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PaulCat:
quote:
Originally posted by Bama Cat:
He just doesn't do much when he is on the floor.

He has played 11 minutes in the last 13 games. He's never really on the floor.
Which came first? The chicken or the egg?

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boomdaddy
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posted 02-18-2017 11:56 AM      Profile for boomdaddy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PaulCat:
quote:
Originally posted by boomdaddy:
The bottom line is that Calipari is the most successful coach at Kentucky since Rupp.

This all depends on your definition of success. According to my definition, Joe B, Rick, Tubby and Cal are all equally successful. They all have one National Championship.
You may judge your Kentucky coaches by championships, alone. I don't. If you look at final fours and championships, it is Calipari.

Tubby was handed that championship team, by the way. He still had to win with what he had, but he didn't recruit that talent.

[ 02-18-2017, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: boomdaddy ]

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ukman
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posted 02-18-2017 01:33 PM      Profile for ukman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tubby still had to win the championship and he did. Did he have a great team? Definitely, but when people have brought up Cal not winning more the excuse back is always "you have to be lucky too." Cal definitely should have won in 15, and with the talent that has been here we should definitely have at least 2, if not 3 championships. UCONN and Puke have 2 in that same time period, and they didn't have the same talent we did. There is no way coach should not have won a championship with that group in 2015, and no way that team should have ever lost to Wisconsin. The kids played the game, but the loss was on the coaching and lack of adjustments, or game plan. They were put in a position to just try to hang on to that game, not win it. I have always said, and will continue to, that Cal is a great recruiter, usually great at getting star kids to buy into team ball, but he is not a great game coach or game planner. The reason he wins is because of the talent he recruits, and that is one of the most important parts of college coaching now a days. Is he a great college coach, yes; but it is mostly because of his recruiting, not because of his game coaching. I feel he was a better game coach when he was at UMass, because he had to be. I think once he got all the talent he thought he could just win with that.
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boomdaddy
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posted 02-18-2017 03:14 PM      Profile for boomdaddy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tubby had a few teams that would have went deeper than they did, but didn't because he lost a big man to injury and a forward to injury, in two of his seasons. I do think Tubby was a very good coach, just not a great recruiter. The last few years of Tubby's Kentucky tenure were terrible in the recruiting front. He really lost his ability to recruit, when he started Saul and then he couldn't get top PG talent. You have to be a very good coach and a great recruiter to consistently make it to the final four and have a chance to win a championship. That is why I think Calipari is the best.

You can be the best coach in the world, and your teams will always come up short in the tourney, if you can't recruit great players.

I do think it is luck to win the championship. Some teams, Duke for example get put in very easy brackets on occasion and have an easy trip to the final four.

Then there are match up issues with certain teams. If the tourney field were smaller and the final four teams played a series then talent would win out over luck. In a one and done scenario, any team can get hot or cold on a given night and the normal outcome is out the window.

Calipari takes kids out of high school and makes them into a team. Calipari gets discounted because everyone thinks they can do what he does. I think it is the opposite. Anybody can coach a team that has veterans and a few newcomers, but coaching a team full of freshmen is much more difficult, in my opinion.

[ 02-18-2017, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: boomdaddy ]

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catmandoo
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posted 02-18-2017 03:15 PM      Profile for catmandoo   Email catmandoo   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If Cal recruited and Tubby coached we would have won numerous of championships but it doesn't work that way. IMO

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boomdaddy
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posted 02-18-2017 03:21 PM      Profile for boomdaddy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by catmandoo:
If Cal recruited and Tubby coached we would have won numerous of championships but it doesn't work that way. IMO

I don't agree with that statement. They would quit the team......they wouldn't want to play his brand of stall ball. I am not saying he can't coach, but I don;t see the top players wanting to play his style of ball. He had a race horse for a PG and got mad at him when he ran. I bet Tubby would have put the brakes on Rex Chapman, if he coached him as well.
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handycat
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posted 02-18-2017 03:47 PM      Profile for handycat   Email handycat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have the feeling I'm in the minority (at least on this board) but I'll take Cal (warts and all) just the way he is.
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Old Norm
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posted 02-18-2017 04:24 PM      Profile for Old Norm   Email Old Norm   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Me too, Handy. I have lived here in Kentucky and followed the Cats for almost 40 years now, and in my humble, unprofessional opinion, Cal is the best, by far, we have had in that period of time, and yes, I have liked all the coaches we've had since then, with the glaring exception of one Billy Gillispe. Billy was not only an awful coach and recruiter, but a total ____________.

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handycat
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posted 02-18-2017 05:24 PM      Profile for handycat   Email handycat   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Norm, you may have discovered the problem. We're not professionals [Smile]

[ 02-18-2017, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]

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